Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc 193 Replies latest jw experiences

  • bennyk
    bennyk

    They are NOT "just wrong", they are deceptive.

    "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus' presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower, 15. Jan. 1993, p. 5, para. 3

    However, the Watch Tower Society actually taught that the presence had begun in 1874: W May 1881, WTR p.223, W Sept. 1898, WTR p.359, W 01. Jan. 1910, WTR p.4543, W 15. Feb. 1928, p.54, para. 24. Other pre- and post-1914 statements indicate that the teaching promulgated by the Watch Tower Society had been that Jesus' reign in heavenly kingdom power began in 1878: e.g. W Dec. 1879, WTR p.58, W 15. Dec. 1892, WTR p.1484, W 15. Nov. 1916, WTR p.5990.

    "Based on what [Jesus] said, along with the words of Daniel and John, Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance,* as marking the start of 'the conclusion of the system of things.' " Awake! of 22. January 1973, p. 8, para. 4

    However, the Watch Tower Society actually taught that the "time of the end" began in A.D. 1799: W Nov. 1890, WTR p.1258, W 01. Nov. 1914, WTR p.5565, The Harp of God, p. 229-234, W 01. Dec. 1928 p. 25, para. 13.

    The Watch Tower Society has knowingly lied about its history.

  • orangefatcat
    orangefatcat

    Lets see the Society is over 125 yrs roughly so they are pretty adept at making things look smooth as silk as if they never even said what you think they said. That is how much finesse they have. You scratch your head and say it that what they said and here I thought it was something else. It was something else alright but the Organziation can blind you so easily that you believe your wrong and they are right and there in lies the trick to brain washing.

    Orangefatcat

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ
    What if Jonah were to have created a document by which he announced (as God's prophet) that Nineveh was to be destroyed? Yet that didn't happen. For that matter, what about the Apostles and disciples of Jesus time who taught the end would occur in THEIR generation? I can go all day with references to seemingly "failed" predictions. You ask, what would a JW think of reading those Awakes or WT's that suppose the end would occur in 1975. I say, what about any Christian reading the Christian Greek Scriptures to which it was clearly said the end would occur around that time? Paul encouraged Christians back then NOT TO GET married since the end was so close...

    First who are using the same kind of reasoning the WT uses

  • Bad Analogy:

    claiming that two situations are highly similar, when they aren't. For example, "The solar system reminds me of an atom, with planets orbiting the sun like electrons orbiting the nucleus. We know that electrons can jump from orbit to orbit; so we must look to ancient records for sightings of planets jumping from orbit to orbit also."

    Or, "Minds, like rivers, can be broad. The broader the river, the shallower it is. Therefore, the broader the mind, the shallower it is."

    Or, "We have pure food and drug laws; why can't we have laws to keep movie-makers from giving us filth?"

    • , I will point it out to you. The story of Nineveh was about repentance, if they did not repent they were going to be destroyed. You compare Jesus with the WT, it's the disciples that got it wrong not Jesus, it's the WT that got it wrong not the RF. You compare the WT and Awake to the Greek Scriptures but the Wt and Awake are not suppose to be inspired from god like the bible is claim to be. One problem is that they give out have truths and use mind control like many religions. The other problem is that they say the bible is the word of god and yet it is not. Clear case of the blind leading the blind,( yes I know the irony of using that saying.)
  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    johnnyc

    So you don't mind them consulting spirit mediums?

    http://www.towertotruth.net/spiritMediums.htm

  • johnnyc
    johnnyc

    I guess people aren't getting my point. Lets start backward a bit. I think everyone will agree that the governing body members believed 1975 (for instance) was a date which could have seen the conclusion of this system. From a motive of pure greed of wanting to stay in their comfortable positions of power, why, oh why, would they promote a date which would make themselves look very foolish (not to mention the inevitable decline in WT membership)if they did not truly believe what they pronounced..? I think this is especially true since they used a date which was right around the corner, that they themselves would have to "clean up" if it did not occur - unlike picking a date many years from then. There was way more "downside" than "upside" if they were operating from a purely "power-hungry" position - as some have mentioned. Raymond Franz has stated that none of the GB members had bad motives while going through all this, and they all very much believed everything they announced. Perhaps they are wrong, but being wrong and deceitful are very different things. More importantly, to prove fraud, you would have to present evidence that the GB thought they were not correct about a date DURING the time they were promoting it - and chose to do so anyway. That is the true definition of fraud and deceit. Not what you here would like to claim it to be.

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ

    I get the point now, like I said the blind leading the blind. How can they get predictions right when they use a flawed book.

  • megs
    megs

    Looking at a date other than 1975... If you have read any of the correspondence between the WTS and Carl Olof Jonsson in the 1970's, it is quite obvious that they chose not to investigate his claims or his extensive research. Is that deceptive or wrong?

  • johnnyc
    johnnyc

    Anti-Christ: I did not compare Jesus with the WT. I said "Jesus Disciples". And I believe the examples are very similar, as Jonah himself was upset about being made to look foolish for he prophesied something that did not occur. If you don't like that example, make a comment on the example on the fact 1st, 2nd, and 3rd century Christians all thought the end would occur in their time - and peached such.

  • johnnyc
    johnnyc

    Deputy Dog: The link you sent me has a major contradiction. It starts by saying that once the WT found out that Johannes Greber was into spiritualistic practices, they discontinued using his quote - yet then later states that they knew from the start. Why can't it be as simple as some at the WTBTS knew, and others did not. When they ALL realized the issue, they immediately stopped using his quotes???? Its like all you can do is think of the negative people - come on.

  • johnnyc
    johnnyc

    megs: can you send some links? I don't mind looking at anything, and I have yet to study what you are referring to.

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