Awakened at Gilead: Your situation seems very interesting...and I am glad you understand what it is I am trying to get across in this post. So were you actually in the school when you left the org? Can I ask what particularly made you think otherwise?
Deceptive or just wrong?
by johnnyc 193 Replies latest jw experiences
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oompa
johnnyc...you still did not reply to my post...part of which asked are you trying to get us to hate them less...you may also find it interesting that there is no NEW LIGHT in the bible...there is no example of god having his earthly organization teach a falsehood for awhile...for ANY reason...only to change it to another false teaching for awhile....and then finally have them teach a real truth...even today that just makes no frikkin sense.......oompa
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johnnyc
The only thing I really meant to do in the thread was deal with if people actually thought the WTBTS was malicious in their bad information, or just wrong. I realize they were at least wrong, and that people did suffer with the fallout of 1975. However, if you were doing that for Jesus (and God) then why not embrace all that you did for the right reasons, and you are now made to suffer for Christ...as the bible says to. Imagine if the "Rich Man" actually gave all his possessions up to follow Jesus, but then got upset when he realized Jesus would not come back in his lifetime...? Many people have died for their beliefs in Jesus and God - even though they may not have been right in their worship. Dont you think Jesus will remember his promise about "whoever loses his life" on his behalf, will save it..?...even for all of them to at least have a chance to know God in truth. The whole point of this is to say that you should not view giving up everything in your worship to God could ever be a bad thing - and if you begrudgingly view it that way, then you are right - you should not have done it - cause it doesn't matter anymore.
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leavingwt
if you were doing that for . . . God
Just like the 19 guys that flew planes into the WTC. People will do anything, while claiming it's for God.
Again, motives and sincerity don't equal good, right and proper.
-LWT
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Deputy Dog
johnnyc
Deputy Dog: Perhaps you have enough for a "warrant" or "incitement" to bring to trial, but you do not have a "prima facia" case - far from it.
Let me know if you would like to have a public trial. I think we could set that up.
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restrangled
I realize they were at least wrong, and that people did suffer with the fallout of 1975. However, if you were doing that for Jesus (and God) then why not embrace all that you did for the right reasons, and you are now made to suffer for Christ...as the bible says to. Imagine if the "Rich Man" actually gave all his possessions up to follow Jesus, but then got upset when he realized Jesus would not come back in his lifetime...? Many people have died for their beliefs in Jesus and God - even though they may not have been right in their worship. Dont you think Jesus will remember his promise about "whoever loses his life" on his behalf, will save it..?...even for all of them to at least have a chance to know God in truth. The whole point of this is to say that you should not view giving up everything in your worship to God could ever be a bad thing - and if you begrudgingly view it that way, then you are right - you should not have done it - cause it doesn't matter anymore.
You are confusing Christ with the WBTS. They are not Christ, nor do they represent him. Those giving their life up to false prophecy is not what was requested. They didin't suffer for Christ..... they were following orders. Christ turned the tables on Pharasies.
In this information age those suffering have a right to "rightous indignation" and turn the tables too.....it is part of our "God Given" free will.
The problem exists that when, this "free right" is excersized....they are thrown out, banned, disfellowshiped, and in a way, thrown to the lions of the self righteousness and considered dead. There is a mental stoning of those who do not accept the lies especially from familly members just like in ancient Israel......
I don't think this is what Christ had in mind at all.
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Awakened at Gilead
Awakened at Gilead: Your situation seems very interesting...and I am glad you understand what it is I am trying to get across in this post. So were you actually in the school when you left the org? Can I ask what particularly made you think otherwise?
No I left 5 years after setting foot in Gilead. But the roots of my leaving were planted when I went there. As I read the Bible twice in 8 months, I realized that the Bible's message was distinct from the Watchtowers. It took a few years for me to digest it all. But a few things that I found diificult to stomach in Gilead: 1. The year 1919 is given such a heavy focus as fulfilling most of the Hebrew scriptures, yet I could see various problems with 1919: a. 1919 does not have any valid chronology to back it up.. I mean, there are the 42 months, right? But if these started in 1914, that would bring you to 1918, right? How do they arbitrarily come up with the year 1919? b. What they say happened in 1919 does not match what actually happened. They talk about the "birth of the nation". Yet the org already existed before and after 1919. They explain that 1919 marked the end of Babylonish captivity, and they point to being released from jail. But that makes no sense, as they were in jail ( by the government), not in Babylon (religious captivity). This also does not match the facts since they still celebrated Xmas until 1925 and b-days until about 1950, and used the cross until about 1931, so how were they cleansed from Babylon in 1919, yet still foloowed Babylon? They further claim that 1919 marked the beginning of the preaching work, and the locusts and the myriads of cavalry began that year. A historic convention also took place. Yet, accoding to the proclaimers book on p.720, there were only 5,793 active preachers at the time. Were all these prophecies fulfilled in just 5,000 people? I saw nothing on p.720 that proved that any Bible prophecies had been fulfilled that year. Made no sense. 2. The idea of 2 groups to be saved (anointed and other sheep) is given extensive coverage in Gilead. Yet I saw little Biblical basis for this. For example, this is based on John 10:16. Have you ever read the context? Most Biblical commentaries say that Jesus was referring to the Gentiles, not to an earthly group that would appear 1900 years later. Think of the context: Jesus is talking to the Jews. He just explained that John the baptizer opened up the way for them (the Jews) to enter into a covenant with him. And then he explains that there will be other sheep that will also enter into a covenant with him. Did he specifically say that these were a group with an earthly hope? Or does it not make sense that he was preparing people for the entering of the Gentiles into the fold, within the lifetime of the hearers? Compare John 10 with Ephesians 2:11-15, where Paul mentions that Jesus blood eliminated the wall between the 2 peoples... doesnt that make much more sense? Finding this out (on my own) made me wonder about the truthfulness of my own hope, which did not seem to be based on Biblical reality. Since Jesus was not specific on who the other sheep would be, it is very easy to call any particular group "the other sheep"... but to insist that it applies to a certain group, is going beyond what is written. 3. Crazy prophectic paralells that had their fulfillment in the WTS... such as Elijah and Elisha refrring to Rutherford and Knorr in 1942; the ten plagues having their fulfillment since 1914 onward; and many other crazy prophetic paralells that would make your head spin, uet are official teachings of the WTS... I was where you are out, my friend... it took some time to work it all out, but now I am 100% sure that the WTS does teach untruths, whether deliberate or not. Please let me know if this answered your question, since it seems that some posters are not reading your intent correctly. Lance
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mcsemike
Johnnyc: This will be my last post to you. I get in trouble stating my stats, but I do it to show people like you that I have, and so have the others, done all the research to prove the WT wrong. The GB lied hundreds of times. They are NOT being used by God. In fact, YOU can't even prove God exists. I'm probably older than you with more education and study time with WT books.
You are NOT looking for honest answers, you want to waste our time and then you'll skip off laughing that so many people spent hours to help you. But you forget many other JW's read this thread and they will possibly take their heads out of their butts.
Not ONE JW ever joined this cult because he could prove it was the truth. The WT turns to selected verses to make their points, but we don't buy that. The Bible was written to ALL men. ( I don't believe the Bible either, I'm just showing you your faulty logic.) It doesn't need a group of old men with no education, who translated the Bible to defend THEIR wrong beliefs and love the power and glory. God would NEVER use a baby-raping cult. Don't tell me Catholics abuse kids too. I know that. I know everything that you know about the WT's views, and all of us have heard all your comments before. You are a JW apologist and we don't need anymore. You go study Silent Lambs, read Ray Franz's books, and read all of Freeminds.
Of all the people alive today in the US who were ever baptized, studied with JW's, or were family members who know the beliefs but never got suckered in, only one third are active witnesses. That means that two-thirds of all people who know this cult quit because they know it's wrong. Some got DF'd, some DA'd. And don't tell me God was cleaning house. When there is an increase, God is speeding up the work. When their is a decrease, God is doing a sifting work. The WT wants it both ways and we won't allow it. They will play by the rules or they will be destroyed. If there is a god, he hates the WT. And whether there is a god or not, I don't need him to help me bring down the WT.
I'm a prolific writer and I'm now flooding the Internet with information. I was also a network engineer so I know how to do it. In 20 years, the WT will have been sued to death and possibly stoned on the streets when out in service. Many towns here in Florida call the cops and tell them pedophiles are going door to door. Are you proud of that?
I will admit your kind and curious questions make it seem you are genuine and honestly just trying to clear up confusion in your mind. If you want to clear up confusion, then quit this perverted and sick cult. You'd be surprised at how clearly you will start to see things once the WT glasses have been taken off.
Everyone on this forum quoted more than enough info to prove the WT wrong and to show you how you think illogically. I can't waste any more time on you. I don't believe you intend to check out the info with an honest heart. Many talented people here have spent a lot of time to help you, and I'm an author so I recognize that their arguments and comments were clear, concise, and honest.
You either prefer to stay a JW, or you came here to waste our time, or you want to stir up the hornet's nest. All you did was prove to us and the world that yet another JW is so brainwashed and often so brain dead as to be beyond any help we can give.
I'll let the others deal with you. But you need professional help, a few lessons in logic, and many years so you can mature.
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happy2bfree
"Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or force
(Zech,4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." Watchtower, 1973 July 1st p.402", that is blaspheme.Some GB members may be sincere; however to claim that they alone are "God’s channel" and that they alone have the " truth", that they alone are "spirit directed", makes mockery of the Spirit.
Did the spirit direct the GB to forecast Armageddon dates: 1914, 1918, 1925, 1940, and 1975? Is it not obvious that they are just another group of self appointed, self-opinionated men, making outlandish claims? After 60 years in the organization I have come to realize that I too was misled and should have paid attention to the scripture: "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world." 1 John 4:1.Michael
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johnnyc
oompa: Here is your response. To the 1st part: The WTBTS has explained their "prophet" position, and why the quotes - no need for me to grab this from thin air. The 2nd part: What the WTBTS teaches on specifically the issues you point out in your post are all things clearly found in the bible - keeping your life simple, perhaps no marriage, suffer for Christ, etc etc. There are things the GB have specified which seem to go beyond what Jesus said, but again, the reason for this thread was to establish the reason - are they just mistaken, or are they purposefully deceitful. I believe there is a huge difference between the two. Your last example does not apply since that person would have intended to hurt you. The question I present is: Does the GB purposefully set out to hurt people? - or are they trying to help, and make mistakes along the way.