I normally don't comment on these political threads yet feel compelled to. As a disclaimer, I am an independent who thinks that both the Democrats and Republican parties are completely out of touch and out of control. Actually, at this point, I think that what the White House and Congress has done to this country in the last 25 years is nothing short of treason and should be punished accordingly - both sides of the aisle. Having said that, I think BTS list of whose to blame is pretty accurate. I think everyone saw this crisis coming but just hoped it wouldn't happen on their watch. Dawg mentioned the greed at the top and while I agree that is a problem, remember that without some element of greed there is no innovation or economic growth. Its only when greed pushes into the illegal that its a real problem. A lot of the problems we're seeing today isn't necessarily consequences of illegal activity but rather bad business decisions. The government is attempting to shield business owners (AIG, Bear Sterns)from the natural consequences of bad business decisions which is failure. I do agree that the government should in-force the law and that the likely consequence of this crisis (just like the Great Depression) is a bunch of new laws. Some of them will be good and some will not. What I'm most concerned about is that the US government is stretched so thin right now with the things BTS mentions (1 trillion in bail out money, war in Iraq/Afghanistan/"terror", social security, medicare/medicaid) I don't see how its going to stop a depression. Unfortunately for all of us, time has come to pay the piper. It will be ugly and hopefully we will come out of this mess better than before.
Wrecking of United States of America
by BurnTheShips 54 Replies latest jw friends
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dawg
Everything Doubting Bro said is absolutely right...
We have an obligation as US citizens to make sure crooks at the top in politics don't do harmful things to our country-they in fact, are answerable to us, business isn't..., and the Democrats have been lining their pockets way too much just as have the Republicans. We should make sure this is stopped... lobbyists are nothing more than merchants of bribery...they are making our country a nation of whores willing to sell their ideologies to the highest bidder.
That said, you'll not see me defend any fool, Democrat nor Republican fool that supports things that hurt my nation, I have an obligation to my country alone, and not to any god damned party.
Problem is, the Republican philosophy doesn't work, strip away the lobbyists and still you have the same old Republicans... they'd change very little, proof is what we're watching now, even as we see their philosophies fail they are still defending it-see the point?.
They've had control of both houses until 2 years ago, and they were in charge of the Executive-this mess is not theirs alone, the Democrats have been selling their souls and haven't been willing to stand up to these fools but this is a undeniable problem with the Republican philosophy.
One more thing, I've always liked Republicans until the last 8 years, the Iraq war, and hearing them parrot Rush at every gathering I go to has alienated me from these people and made me brand them as fools... hard not to when the most educated many of them are is the education they get from the Limbaugh show... that said, I think any thinking person loves to see the Republicans do their jobs and vie for smaller Government, less waste, less intrusive government... No party needs to gett too much of an upper hand, Republics work better when power is kept in check!
But the Republicans haven't done even what their good at... they are enemies as they stand now statue quo.
How are these facts not evident? -
beksbks
And we have lost confidence in the principles that led to our rise as the beacon of the free world.
This is the thought I want to explore. What are these principles? I know what I think they are. Honor, Equality, the idea that we are all in this together. A successful Middle Class. People who work hard and get somewhere. Maybe even own their own business. The little guy. The trickle UP theory. Not the get rich quick me me me that we've seen flourish over the last 30 years. Neighbors. Community.
Can some one give me another definition of those principles?
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dawg
Bekseks... all things those on the right don't have a comprehension of...
You can write about trickle up all day long, but those on the right will not understand it, or they'll defend the opposite... sad really. -
SixofNine
"... said BTS, who wants to continue GW Bush policies and has never heard, heretofore, of a tax cut that wasn't a good tax cut."
:: "This is not a fair statement. I have been critical of GWB policies where I have felt them to be incorrect. This thread itself evidences it. You don't get it.
BTS"
Twentyfive bucks to the charity of your choice if you can find a post you've made on this board criticizing Bush's tax policy, or even criticizing ANY tax cuts even if you don't specifically mention Bush.
Ten bucks to charity if you can produce a post by BTS that criticizes GW Bush or his administration about anything, taxes or otherwise.
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restrangled
Burns, I totally agree with you.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?
Washington Mutual was just barely hanging on. I have a credit card with this company. Overnight, in my e mail account I get an update from them that they have upped my credit line by another $1000.00 dollars. WTF? So the feds buy out all the bad paper and suddenly overnight their dishing out credit that wasn't even asked for!
This is so very wrong!
r.
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SixofNine
OooohRoscoePColtrain!!!!!!1111!!!!
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coffee_black
Um Six,
Ten bucks to charity if you can produce a post by BTS that criticizes GW Bush or his administration about anything, taxes or otherwise.
Did you read his original post on his thread?
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Before I continue let me provide a partial list of entities responsible for the financial mess we find ourselves in:
- -Fractional-reserve banking, which is inherently unstable and entirely a confidence game
- -Congress for passing the Federal Reserve Act and creating the Federal Reserve, the third central bank in the history of the US
- -Woodrow Wilson for using the Fed to finance World War 1
- -Benjamin Strong, the President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York from 1914-1928, for inflating the money supply in the '20s to help out Great Britain which led to the Great Depression
- -Herbert Hoover for his economic intervention from 1929-1932. He was not laissez-faire by any means.
- -John Maynard Keynes for laying the foundation of a miseducated public
- -FDR for banning private ownership of gold, enacting the New Deal, creating Social Security and Fannie Mae, and exacerbating the Great Depression
- -The FDIC for lulling the American public into a false sense of security regarding their bank deposits and training the public to unquestionably trust the financial system
- -LBJ for the guns and butter of the '60s
- -Nixon for severing all ties between the US dollar and gold
- -Reagan's intellectual duplicity, using free market, small government rhetoric while turning the US into a chronic debtor nation
- -Alan Greenspan, one of the most duplicitous, arrogant, and incompetent individuals in the history of the United States. If I had to pin this crisis on any one man, it would be he.
- -George W. Bush for cutting taxes while raising spending and his full embrace of Cheney's doctrine of "deficits don't matter"
- -Ben Bernanke for following the Greenspan doctrine to its inevitable conclusion
- -The heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for using artificially low borrowing costs to create systemically-dangerous housing institutions
- -Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank for beating the socialist drum
- -Christopher Cox for thinking a ban on short-selling will solve anything
- -Hank Paulson for folding the hand he was dealt
- -The ratings agencies for rubber stamping garbage assets as AAA
- -The heads of the major banks and brokerages on Wall Street for turning a blind eye as their institutions were taking on massive leverage that threatens to take down the financial system
- -The hedge funds that levered up structured finance to dangerous levels
- -Generations of lawmakers for kicking the looming financial crisis can down the road
- -Home buyers who lied about their income and creditworthiness
- -Predatory lenders who put people into mortgages they could never afford
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Not going to search through his threads to prove the point further.
Coffee
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BurnTheShips
Ten bucks to charity if you can produce a post by BTS that criticizes GW Bush or his administration about anything, taxes or otherwise.
Will you donate to the charity of my choice?
My post history, all quotes are from different postings at various times in the past:
I don't agree with absolutist statists like Bush. I deplore many things about his presidency: runaway spending, erosion of civil liberties, mishandling of the war, his utter lack of ability to communicate..do you want me to keep on?
Bush is smoking a crack pipe. He just doesn't get it does he?
I wince whenever I think of him opening his mouth in public.
you have to admit Bush did not serve people like us very well. Look at the size of the Federal Gov't now.
I wanted McCain in 2000, but it was not to be.
As for taxes, I favor a low tax environment. Ten bucks you said?
BTS