10 Years International Crime Court: Towards World Law?

by hamilcarr 202 Replies latest social current

• 

  hillary_step

  James,

  OK, I read the Wiki page on this. It appears that it is in fact, a little over six years old - established July 1st, 2002.

  In the manifesto that I received from the ICC it notes that it held its first assembly late 2002, yes getting on for six years.

  In all fairness James, in the future when you chose to sneer at an organization that is at least trying to do some good in this world, you might find out what this organziation actually represents, as you do not seem to have a clue.

  Burn,

  Just bale out while you have some dignity intact. You have shown yourself to be ignorant of the facts here, and doing online research on the fly will not save you at this late stage.

  HS
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Just bale out while you have some dignity intact. You have shown yourself to be ignorant of the facts here, and doing online research on the fly will not save you at this late stage.

  Nonsense, the research shows that your statements are false, and you are now trying to waffle out of having to defend them.

  BTS
• 

  hillary_step

  Burn,

  The ICC is a creature of the UN.

  What complete piffle....lol. The UN and the ICC are seperate and distinct organizations. Always have been, always will be. That they agree to WORK together in certain areas does not imply ownership or a lack of independance. Just as the Police of one country might work with the Police of another, though each remain independent. This as is noted in your rapidly researched cut and paste is a RELATIONSHIP.

  You are just trying hard to prove a flawed conclusion that you have in your head and grasping at straws to evidence this. It will not work Burn.

  Give it up. You are dead in the water with this one, and at this stage making a complete idiot of yourself. I am beginning to think that you enjoy it. I should get back to 'Watching The World' before your brain short-circuits.

  HS

  The Court shall be brought into relationship with the United Nations through an agreement to be approved by the Assembly of States Parties to this Statute and thereafter concluded by the President of the Court on its behalf.

  The UN Security council may refer a case to the ICC under article 13:

  The Court may exercise its jurisdiction with respect to a crime referred to in article 5 in accordance with the provisions of this Statute if:

  (b) A situation in which one or more of such crimes appears to have been committed is referred to the Prosecutor by the Security Council acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations

  And article 16 states that the UN has the power to defer an investigation if it so chooses:

  No investigation or prosecution may be commenced or proceeded with under this Statute for a period of 12 months after the Security Council, in a resolution adopted under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, has requested the Court to that effect; that request may be renewed by the Council under the same conditions.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  What complete piffle....lol.

  No it isn't, the UN General Assembly established it, it is therefore its creation:

  http://www.iccnow.org/?mod=ga52

  As I have demonstrated above, the Security Council has the power to place a case before the ICC, and the power to defer prosecution from the ICC. This reduces the amount of independence a great deal.

  Your customary descent into personal attacks will not help you HS.

  BTS
• 

  hamilcarr

  What's the significance of

  a) the relationship of the ICC and the UN and

  b) the length of its existence

  in relation my opening post and the potential of the court to achieve world law?
• 

  james_woods

  There is definately a relationship with the U.N. For example, that recent case that was refused by the judges over the exculpatory evidence was thrown out on the basis of information provided by a U.N. agency.

  Look everybody - particularly Hillary Step - I have come to naturally suspect things like this who are associated with the U.N. just out of past experiences as recorded in history. While the motives may be wonderful, usually personal ideas or political issues come up and spoil a lot of the potential.

  And if I just might say, for the budget of over 80 million euros a year, with over 450 employees, getting just four perps arrested, none to trial, and having the first trial case botched by mistreatment of evidence is a pretty piss-poor investment for the member nations.

  Maybe they can do better than this in the future. We shall see.
• 

  hillary_step

  James,

  There is definately a relationship with the U.N

  Nobody has denied, or would think of denying that their is a RELATIONSHIP between the ICC and the UN, just as one would not deny that their is a RELATIONSHIP between Interpol and the ICC. The reality is that neither partner of this RELATIONSHIP is able to influence the DECISIONS of the other.

  The ICC and the UN are TOTALLY, COMPLETELY and UTTERLY different entities.

  That they choose to work together for the common good of the other in CERTAIN situations does not make one owned, as BurnTheLogic is suggesting. It is quite astonishing that the both of you are straining so hard to present the appearance of actually knowing what you are speaking about. It seems to me that neither of you had even heard of the ICC until Hamilcarr bought it to your notice. I state this because of your obvious ignorance of the mature of the ICC and the fact that BurnTheShips, only at this late stage in the thread, is actually trying to research his way out of the toilet bowl of failure.

  Burn,

  Do you really think that those who read is thread are stupid? You insult the readers by suggesting that I am 'waffling'. They can read Burn.

  Apart from Hamilcarr, and your late and typical 'cut and paste' attempts at redeeming yourself from a defeated viewpoint, the only person who has actually bought FACTS to this thread is myself.

  It is a shame that once again you have backed the wrong horse, but suck it up.....again. I know that researching before you post is considered a compromise in your little world, but give it a try some day. It saves everybody time.

  HS
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Apart from Hamilcarr, and your late and typical 'cut and paste' attempts at redeeming yourself from a defeated viewpoint, the only person who has actually bought FACTS to this thread is myself.

  Facts? Lies HS, lies. You old liar.

  BTS
• 

  hamilcarr

  Facts? Lies HS, lies. You liar.

  Run out of words?

  It's very easy to claim someone's wrong, far more difficult to prove it.
• 

  hamilcarr

  Actually off-topic, but because some are so persistent:

  Relationship Agreement Between the ICC and the United Nations

  The Relationship Agreement between the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the United Nations (UN) regulates the working relationship between these two organizations, and establishes the legal foundation for cooperation within their respective mandates. The ICC is an independent international institution with a mandate – in support of the UN Charter – to address crimes that threaten international peace and security. The Relationship Agreement therefore reflects a delicate balance between independence and cooperation, respecting the autonomy and confidentiality of both institutions. 1