10 Years International Crime Court: Towards World Law?

by hamilcarr 202 Replies latest social current

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    One American's opinion, and limited to the concept of "supranational entities."

    The demarcation point of democracy is often a paper tiger. If democracy is good, at which point do you arbitrarily draw the line between which group is participating? In the United States, this often plays out in the struggle between the rights of States to determine what is good for their citizens versus the power of the Federal government to establish what is good for all citizens in the Country.

    Interestingly, this battle becomes most focused in the area of civil rights. Historically, "States rights" has been synonymous with limiting the civil rights of minorities juxtaposed against the Federal government subverting the "will of the people" by establishing a common law of the land so that all can participate in and benefit from democracy.

    In more minor ways the issue of local government "blue laws" provide the forum as smaller groups (than States) attempt to establish what is acceptable in their own community as opposed to adhering to a common standard of acceptability. Interestingly, both local groups that appear too stringent as well as local groups that appear too lenient to "outsiders" come under fire.

    The dynamic expresses itself the same across these boundaries: "You're not gong to tell me what I can and cannot do."

    Sometimes this expression is big (who gets to vote and who doesn't), and sometimes small (can a nipple be depicted in a photograph).

    But the real question is, who gets to particpate - and will they be reasonable (or humble, or weak, or moral, of whatever term you wish to use) enough to take a peer position within the larger group.

    Historically, the mindset of the typical male JW would be, No. There is too much pride, too much hubris, too much emphatic convicition of their own inerrant right to do just as they please. Only they have the true measure of things, only they have the authority to establish rule, only they may decide. The current President of the United States would have made an excellent JW.

    Once a sovereign nation extends its participation into a larger world community, it must participate in government forms that are inclusive of other nations. If it cannot be reasonable (or humble, or whatever you wish to label it) and act as a peer among equals, it has no business participating in the larger forum of a world community.

    It's time the United States realized its true role as a peer in a world forum and started behaving accordingly. The myopic, grandiose, narcissistic, self-indulgent bahavior it has exhibited especially recently does not serve its interests in a larger community.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Is the invocation of "being like a JW/Watchtower" the unspoken Godwin's law of this forum?

    BTW, I disagree regarding the JW mindset, it tends to be subservient and "humble" rather than individualized.

    The X-JW mindset....different story.

    Interesting thoughts regardless.

    BTS

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Ok Hillary - if you really believe that the ICC has successfully prosecuted 12 cases - why don't you get onto Wiki and set the facts straight.

    here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court

    here is what they say about the 12 cases:

    To date, the Court has opened investigations into four situations: Northern Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the Central African Republic and Darfur. [12] The Court has issued public arrest warrants for twelve people; six of them remain free, two have died, and four are in custody. The Court's first trial, of Congolese militia leader Thomas Lubanga, was due to begin on 23 June2008 but it was halted on 13 June when judges ruled that the Prosecutor's refusal to disclose potentially exculpatory material had breached Lubanga's right to a fair trial. [13] [14]

    here is what they say about the relationship with the U.N:

    Unlike the International Court of Justice, the ICC is legally and functionally independent from the United Nations. However, the Rome Statute grants certain powers to the United Nations Security Council. Article 13 allows the Security Council to refer to the Court situations that would not otherwise fall under the Court's jurisdiction (as it did in relation to the situation in Darfur, which the Court could not otherwise have prosecuted as Sudan is not a state party). Article 16 allows the Security Council to require the Court to defer from investigating a case for a period of 12 months. [68] Such a deferral may be renewed indefinitely by the Security Council.

    The Court cooperates with the UN in many different areas, including the exchange of information and logistical support. [69] The Court reports to the UN each year on its activities, [69] [70] and some meetings of the Assembly of States Parties are held at UN facilities. The relationship between the Court and the UN is governed by a “Relationship Agreement between the International Criminal Court and the United Nations”. [71] [72]

    here is what they say about the trial to be set for July 23 of Thomas Lubanga:

    In March 2004, the government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, a state party, referred to the Prosecutor “the situation of crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court allegedly committed anywhere in the territory of the DRC since the entry into force of the Rome Statute, on 1 July 2002.” [98] [99]

    On 17 March2006, Thomas Lubanga, former leader of the Union of Congolese Patriots militia in Ituri, became the first person to be arrested under a warrant issued by the Court, for allegedly “conscripting and enlisting children under the age of fifteen years and using them to participate actively in hostilities”. [100] His trial was due to begin on 23 June2008, [101] but it was halted on 13 June when the Court ruled that the Prosecutor's refusal to disclose potentially exculpatory material had breached Lubanga's right to a fair trial. [13] The Prosecutor had obtained the evidence from the United Nations and other sources on condition of confidentiality, but the judges ruled that the Prosecutor had incorrectly applied the relevant provision of the Rome Statute and, as a consequence, "the trial process has been ruptured to such a degree that it is now impossible to piece together the constituent elements of a fair trial". [13] [14]

    :And for this, the world has spent upwards of 170 million Euros this far.

    If you guys think this organization is so wonderful, then it must be for potentially political reasons (even if you deny this). We cannot ignore the context that both of you take consistently anti-U.S. and consistently leftist positions on any political issue.

    I submit that your sopport of this cannot possibly be for effective actions of the ICC, given this 6 year record.

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    myopic, grandiose, narcissistic, self-indulgent bahavior

    Good description of Burn's "excellent JW" behavior on this thread.

    Called his opponents "deluded fools", "liars" and threatened with physical violence.

    Historically, the mindset of the typical male JW
  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr

    Once again, you fail to grasp Void's nuance:

    There is too much pride, too much hubris, too much emphatic convicition of their own inerrant right to do just as they please. Only they have the true measure of things, only they have the authority to establish rule, only they may decide. The current President of the United States would have made an excellent JW.
  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Duplicate

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Called his opponents "deluded fools", "liars" and threatened with physical violence.

    Hardly!

    I was called ignorant, then a liar, first, and I never threatened violence.

    Really Hamilcarr, you should pay better attention to your own threads.

    Hillary_Step always stoops to this level, and the threads degenerate. He is the #1 troll on this board.

    As I mentioned earlier, he would never be so caustic and inflammatory in real life, someone would eventually smear the arrogant sneer off his face.

    BTS

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    We cannot ignore the context that both of you take consistently anti-U.S. and consistently leftist positions on any political issue.

    Neither should we ignore that you didn't know what this thread actually dealt with ...

    before you discovered Wikipedia.

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr

    Yes, Burn, you were uninformed.

    Your only contribution to this thread was copy paste of other sources. It seems as if you can't formulate your own ideas on this topic.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Neither should we ignore that you didn't know what this thread actually dealt with ...

    Well, you know what is in my head? Who is full of bullshit now?

    YOU are the one relying on wikipedia to bolster your weak knowledge of the subject:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/14/162363/2999205/post.ashx#2999205

    OK, I thought Hamilcar said today was the ten year anniversary.

    A binding treaty for 5 years

    On 17 July1998, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court was adopted by a vote of 120 to 7, with 21 countries abstaining. The seven countries that voted against the treaty were Iraq, Israel, Libya, the China, Qatar, the United States, and Yemen. [22]

    The Rome Statute became a binding treaty on 11 April2002, when the number of countries that had ratified it reached 60. [4]

    Nice bunch of aggressor states that voted against.

    And you ape all of HS pitiful attempts at an argument. Do you have an original thought in your head?

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