Ran into old JW friend in the airport...Correspondence has ensued... (page 5)

Confession

Well...turns out he replied.

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Greetings and salutations Jon,

I hope this finds you enjoying the long weekend! This past week I drove over to Green Bay (Appleton) to install the new equipment, and drove back home today. The roads are really empty for the Fourth of July weekend!!! When you're in Appleton, if you get to the Shopko Express on College Ave. (just east of 441), and use their digital equipment - that's my work!!! LOL

Man, it was a trial. It seemed like every cable was wanting to twist the wrong way, every screw wanted to get cross-threaded, etc... On the bright side, the management was friendly and helpful. The equipment was there on time without any pieces missing. The final outcome was what it was supposed to be. All things considered, a successful completion of the goal I had to achieve! :)

My hopes are that you have a successful trip to Appleton this coming week!!!

Our favorite topic seems to be 'religious' in nature, and that one of my favorites to discuss with anyone, so let's go there!

Please let me be open and direct; You seem hung up on placing blame on a human organization. This last email you sent me; the hour and a half conversation on the phone, the conversation on the airplane all follow the same basic train of thought - all focus your energies in the same direction. Some food for thought.

I can truly appreciate what you are saying about the 'energy' the universe has. The organization, positioning, manipulating of that energy which allows us to be sentient, conscious is miraculous - no matter how it happened. What we do with this energy is up to us; whether it is to place blame on some organization, work to spread love, seek to become the next president, or whatever. I'm thankful for the people I come across in my travels who have a positive outlook; those who have the ability to embrace strangers as friends; the ones loving kindness as it relates to common civil manners (Thank-yous, opening doors, hellos, etc...), and so on. I believe that love is shown in actions like these. Some people tend to come by this naturally, while others (like myself) have to work on this continually. LOL

I'm also encouraged by many writings. As you recalled, I mentioned the Native American wisdoms I discovered. There are even more writings that share the 'hope/guidance' that is laid out in the Bible, and I'm impressed by the abundance of similarities of belief throughout the world regards to treating others. Where do they learn this stuff??

(Romans 2:12-16) 12 For instance, all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.

I'd love to go back through time and be that 'fly on the wall' and actually see it as it happened!

If you give the account in Genesis even an iota of credibility, there is the question of humans trying to take care of themselves. Is it beyond concept to think that a powerful creator is sitting back - arms folded - watching (like a side-line observer) until it's time to step in and straighten up the situation where it needs it? IMHO, that is Designer inter-connected energy at it's best! Allowing us to try it on our own, and stepping in to help out where/when needed.

Anyway, in the big picture here, I'm finding the most interesting paradox in our conversations is this (IMHO); you've found spiritual freedom by discovering other other areas of 'wisdom' in your life. I've discovered spiritual freedom by learning the knowledge that the Bible has in it and see the parallels in other writings. Go figure??! LOL

Peace and well wishes!

John

Confession

bttt (for anyone following this)

sass_my_frass

Okay well that seems to have worked out. Hopefully you can both ignore the elephant in the room and stop trying to be the one who is right.

steve2

As stated earlier, many ex-JWs never (bother to) make a complete break. They still hold onto bits and pieces of the religion that suit them. So, when they come fact-to-face with an ex-JW who has "worked out" (by using their active brain cells) that the JW religion is just another religion, it shakes them up. They'd rather do what a lot of ex-JWs and JWs do: cruise through life not having to grapple with these issues. It's really hard work thinking for yourself.

And, as also stated earlier, these lapsed JWs suffer from NABAY disorder (Not As Bad As You): It's a feebly childish attempt to have it both ways: "Jehovah can see that I'm not as bad as these apostates and he'll spare me".

Confession

Hopefully you can both ignore the elephant in the room and stop trying to be the one who is right.

"Ignoring the elephant in the living room," yes. That's what I've done with my parents when I met them. Seemed to work pretty well. But in this case, the reconnection was with someone who told me he hadn't attended meetings in at least eight years, who shared that he'd found new religious ideas to embrace, and who expressed a couple of reasons why he didn't think attaching himself to the WTS was necessary. This meant there "appeared" to be a very decent common ground. Further, our only real common bond was that we both were Jehovah's Witnesses for several years. Still further, I'd just been to see my mother and father for the first time in nearly three years, he'd recently moved back to their hometown, and he was asking lots of questions about them and the rest of my family. It seemed to be the ideal backdrop for a little ex-JW meetup!

Then, on the phone came this: "I still believe it's The Truth."

I was in a state of astonished paralysis. It simply had to lead to a conversation about why, given all the things he'd said previously.

My point is, had I known this was a person still very sympathetic to JWism, I would have proceeded much more cautiously--for his sake. I do not need to be right. But in coming upon someone in whom I found such contradiction--and one who seemed so open to a free discussion--I myself spoke freely. And there's no way that, when I am myself challenged on things in which I believe, that I'm not going to give a reply. So that I did.

steve2

Then, on the phone came this: "I still believe it's The Truth."

I can understand your astonishment, because it did appear as if your old friend was now more open-minded. I suppose the lesson is this: When it comes to matters of religious belief, for many, many people the (fearful) heart rules over the rational head. Sometimes it's just less bothersome to muddle-along in life, even in a backsliding way, than to re-evaluate one's beliefs. Clearly, your old friend's not yet ready to question his beliefs and still needs to express his belief in the religion.

Confession

Hi, Steve. I've appreciated your contributions to this thread. I just wanted to say, "Yes, I get it." I both understand where John is now--and that there are many others like him who, as I wrote in my letter to him, have slipped away from the organization--but who haven't found a reason actually to examine the religion critically. I liked your NABAY identification too. Spot on. I guess this is just a story of how I found one of 'em, and how surprised I was to discover he was one--given our onboard conversation.

BabaYaga

I am glad he wrote back, and very interested in following the "saga"! Sounds delightful, especially since he actually loves to talk about differences/similarities in religions... this is GOOD.

Love,
Baba.

FreeWilly

Very interesting exchange. His first letter was very well thought out and actually made some sense. Your reply to this letter was one of the best I've read here on JWD so far.

Excellent treatment of WT "negativity" faultfinding and the pervasive destruction of family ties.

His latest letter was rather lame in comparison with no real direction or substance. That speaks for itself. If it were me I would probably let things rest or only respond with kind wishes. You made great unassailable points for him to contemplate.

Great job

FW

DanTheMan

Judging from the latest email, I'd say that not a thing you said in your last email to him is getting through at all, which leads me to believe that he is still deeply attached to the org. That "food for thought" line was especially smug. Blah.

Ran into old JW friend in the airport...Correspondence has ensued...

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