Ran into old JW friend in the airport...Correspondence has ensued...

by Confession 51 Replies latest jw experiences

  • oldflame
    oldflame

    I will start by saying this ! My spiritual wellness is the utmost important thing in my life and I hold it with the most highest regards.

    That being said just how are we supposed to feel or act when we learn that we almost lost our salvation by giving into these liars and thieves. Oh yeah I consider the society a thief as they almost stole mine and others spirits from true salvation.

    Yes I am bitter at the society, not so much at the followers as they are people who are naive like i was, the only difference is I take the bible seriously and the Lords spirit seriously. To me it is the same as murder because they murder spirits of those who are weak and cannot lead themselves.

  • str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up
    str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up

    Bizarre.

    People who feel so strongly about protecting the Borg should never leave it.

    I don't understand the need to 'offer something better'. It comes down to the fact that JWs endlessly defend their organisation and religion as 'the Truth' when it simply isn't.

    Does my head in.

  • Confession
    Confession

    Okay, so here's my reply...

    --------------------------

    Hi John,

    Good to get your note. It was funny to read of your experience in getting delayed, getting home late and shopping after 1am. Sounds a lot like my life!

    I thought I’d take the time to address the fine thoughts you brought out in your message—and indeed offer something I consider encouraging.

    I think one of the most difficult things we face as humans is the attempt to understand one another. Communicating clearly is challenging enough, but then there are things that get in the way of our comprehension of each other too. For instance, after hearing you tell me you no longer attended meetings at the Kingdom Hall and had come to appreciate some of the beliefs associated with Native American spirituality, I mistakenly assumed you’d been through the process I’d been. (That is, conducting an investigation into Watchtower teachings, and finding they weren’t what you thought they were.) My bad.

    From our conversations and your note, I’d say you’re a man who has chosen to take life’s experiences in stride, attempted to learn from them, and instead of succumbing to anger or bitterness, committed himself to finding ways to stay positive as he finds his path through life. You are not interested in “opportunistic faultfinding,” choosing instead to find connection with others. If this sounds at all right to you, I’ll finish the above assessment by saying “congratulations.” And I’ll ask you, please, to consider how I myself have chosen this very path, and how the things I’ve spoken to you about—despite the way they may have been understood—actually demonstrate my commitment to the same sorts of principles.

    Your story about paper towel is, I think, understood. The moral is: You can’t always have it both ways. Another way of saying it: You can’t have your cake and eat it too. (I always found this one funny. I mean, if you’re going to have cake, isn’t it assumed you’re going to eat it? LOL! Anyway, I get what it’s supposed to mean!) To this day, my daughter cringes when that Rolling Stones song comes on the radio… “You can’t always get what you waaaaant.” I used to sing that to her all the time when she was young. I believe the simple point you’re making is that sometimes there will be conflict in life—and when you find it, you can choose the policy of acceptance, common ground and connection, or the policy of anger, bitterness and being “right.”

    As part of the training I received as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I came to accept that there existed certain “faultfinders.” Those who were critical of some in the congregation—and certainly of the Society—were identified as such. And they were there, weren’t they? Your comments about a certain forthright [hometown] sister shows you apparently found them too. :o) There was one good friend, a brother at least fifteen years my senior in [another] congregation who constantly picked. He’d pick at how a certain elder said something, or how someone in the congregation was not showing what he felt was proper Christian love. And, while he still spoke very favorably about the organization, invariably he’d use these personal issues as reasons to stay away from meetings. I noticed something interesting about him and other JWs who stopped attending meetings—but never took the time to examine Watchtower Society teachings objectively. While they had their reasons for staying away, they loved to be able to say, “But I still believe it’s The Truth!” Invariably these ones would cite examples of how they still talked to others about Watchtower teachings, or how disgusted they were with former JWs who no longer believed it to be The Truth. It felt good to be able to say to current, practicing JWs, “That’s right; I may not go to meetings, but I still defend Jehovah’s organization! I’m not like those “apostates!”” It gave them comfort to know that—even if they weren’t doing everything the organization asked of them—at least they weren’t as bad as those who no longer believed and admitted such openly.

    Thinking back, it seems as if an incredibly large share of my time as a JW was spent trying to convince people to look on the bright side, not to be quick to judge, and to get over personal issues and misunderstandings. As I mentioned to you, I even had to try and “readjust” one of the brothers on my judicial committee who’d called me after my disfellowshipping to tell me he was bothered at the way things went and wasn’t sure the right decision was made. I was definitely committed to the idea that someone critical of the organization was usually an opportunistic faultfinder, unnecessarily sensitive, an overly negative naysayer with nothing better to do than tear down instead of build up.

    Isn’t it interesting though that, while I would sigh at those who would be faultfinders of the organization, I seemed perfectly happy with being a faultfinder of other organizations and people, specifically those ones the Watchtower Society itself was a faultfinder of. The Catholic Church? Protestantism? Any other religion claiming to be Christian? Any other religion period? Not only would the Society find fault with them; they’d condemn them to destruction. And so would I. Why was I able to dismiss criticism of the Society itself as "bitter negativity," while considering the deep criticisms they approved of as “righteous indignation?”

    One of the things I now realize is something I just couldn’t see then. I’m sure someone has a name for this psychological mechanism, but since I don’t know what it is, I’ll just describe it. Many of us are more comfortable seeing the flaws in individuals—and less comfortable in identifying them in some of the iconic structures of society, particularly those we’ve been connected to. I myself am affected by this. I’ve noticed that when people start propounding that the United States government is drastically more cloak-and-dagger than I imagine, I tend to dismiss them as bizarre conspiracy theorist nut jobs. While I know things are not always what they seem, I tend to want to believe they couldn’t possibly be involved in extremely underhanded activities. They are, after all, the United States government; come on! I’ll admit that this mindset is flawed.

    A year or so ago I was talking with one of my workmates, an African-American man, about the “Uncle Tom” stereotype at which many smirk. It’s true I found disagreement in what I felt were quick judgments he made about other black people, but he did help me realize how the psychological mechanism I mentioned above occurs in this area too. Today it’s clear: black slavery in the U.S. (and other countries) was an horrific thing. People, captured like animals, thrown into the holds of ships, stacked like ice cube trays for months. Their captors knew a percentage would die, and these they’d just throw overboard like so much garbage. Those who survived would be bought, sold and branded like cattle to fellow human beings who considered themselves superior. They were nothing more than “property” that could be beaten or killed at the whim of their owners, and this arrangement had the support of the legal authorities.

    Again, today it’s easy to be able to say: that was wrong. But, at the time, many if not most white people looked for excuses. “Those blacks lived like savages in the jungle. We have brought them to America, and though they are lesser beings, we have introduced them to Christianity. We’ve been good to them, giving them beds and work and food. Sometimes we beat and kill some of them, but it must be done to teach lessons and keep good order among the rest of the darkies.” Most today would regard such statements as rather analgesic reasoning, certainly insufficient for excusing such evil oppression. If, at that time, someone spoke out about slavery being a terrible thing, you can bet there were plenty of others who’d accuse them of “being negative.”

    There existed black slaves themselves who would try to quiet the righteous anger among their people. “Don’t fight it. It don’t do no good. You were born black, and you’re gonna die black. Massa Johnson give us food and treat us good so long as we don’t get uppity. This just the way things is, and the sooner you starts acceptin’ it, the betta off you’ll be.” This is the “Uncle Tom” archetype. Back then some may have considered this as “looking on the bright side,” instead of getting caught up in “pointing out faults – verbally flogging others.” But what we realize today is that if no one ever “stood up,” no voice of justice ever called out…such human slavery would still exist. John, it takes courageous people to bring attention to injustice. To be able to see that “the emperor wears no clothes,” and say so.

    I am not suggesting that the situation with Jehovah’s Witnesses is as gruesome as the human slavery described above. But I would propose that is very much a type of slavery. Anytime people, in assuming leadership over others, demand from these people their allegiance through manipulative and authoritarian tactics, not allowing peaceable freedom of expression without threat of reprisal, they are tyrants. And those who give such allegiance, surrender freedom of thought and expression, and allow themselves to be controlled in this manner, can certainly be called slaves.

    Should JWs and others be allowed to worship as they choose? Certainly. But if, while demanding the right to worship as they choose, they attempt to prevent others from doing the same, it isn’t wrong to accuse them of hypocrisy. And if they force their members to show loyalty to their leadership—under threat of condemnation and social isolation tactics—you have to be willing to consider that it’s they who are the negative ones. They’re not only “pointing out faults,” but actually branding others as ‘evil enemies of God, not worthy of prayers, and ones to be “hated.”’ Does that qualify as “verbally flogging”? Why will some say that this is just “people practicing their religion as they so choose,” but, when those they shun and condemn give a reply, it is smugly regarded as “pointing out faults” or “being negative”?

    “Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled. But some people’s idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage.” -Winston Churchill

    I still remember the time when I asked a former Jehovah’s Witness, “Why so negative?” And now and then I’ll hear someone express something similar, as when you suggested that the things I spoke to you about are less legitimate and more the result of “deep-seated anger.” Some of us, for good reason, prefer to live in a less negative world, and so we look for the opportunities to minimize negativity. And when someone expresses disapproval, addressing them with calm, reasonable, counteractive words can make a person feel levelheaded and wise.

    So to such ones, I say, "Good for you!"

    But also I will ask, "When the Watchtower Society claims they are God's sole channel of communication, and that all other religious agencies are not merely mistaken--but under the direct control of "the wicked one," Satan the Devil...why so negative?"

    Further, when a teenage Witness girl is molested and raped by a congregation servant, and when she is threatened not to report this to the authorities by congregation elders who are taking their cues directly from the Watchtower Society; when she is expected instead to sit and listen to her rapist give talks from the platform--and never to speak of her abuse again...why so negative?

    When a Watchtower insider, overwhelmed by the evidence of the organization's failure to protect children from pedophiles among them, is finally moved by her conscience to come forward and tell the truth--but is summarily dismissed, condemned and shunned...why so negative?

    When the Society had it's followers surround other churches with signs in hand, and had soundcars blasting the message, "Religion is a Snare and a Racket!" to peaceable churchgoers...why so negative?

    When the Society joins up as an N.G.O. with the United Nations--what they claim to be the disgusting image of Revelation's Wild Beast--and they minimize the importance, but, when a young Witness man joins the YMCA and they threaten him with disfellowshipping and shunning...why so negative?

    When Witness researchers discovered grave errors in foundational Watchtower chronology, and they did not immediately respond to official threats to keep their mouths shut, and were then disfellowshipped and shunned...why so negative?

    When the Watchtower Society's president yelled out to more than 30,000 Witnesses, “Christendom must be cut down and thrown into the fire!”...why so negative?

    When the official position is that any religion other than their own is “deserving of the fiery expression of Jehovah’s wrath” and “fit for destruction"...why so negative?

    And when a baptized Witness decides they no longer recognize the Society as what it claims to be, and wish to leave peacefully, and when the Society then brands them as a wicked apostate, not even worthy of prayers; when their entire family and lifelong community of friends are now officially instructed by the Society to cut them off, vilifying them as of "The Evil Slave Class," I ask...why so negative?

    John, the way in which the Watchtower Society has come to dominate the lives, speech and thinking of its followers—while viciously protecting its own authority—cannot be successfully likened to “limited paper towel options.”

    Sometimes, when faced with the above questions, these evenhanded, sensible folks will remind me that other religions have been responsible for such things and worse. And they're right, aren't they? But has this ever been an acceptable excuse?

    To address a misunderstanding from your e-mail, my reason for speaking out as I do is not because I “miss my friends” or family. You’ll remember that, when I met you at the airport, I’d just met with my mom and dad. I have little in common today with most of my former Jehovah’s Witness friends. Would it be nice to see them? Sure, but I’m aware that, for most of them, it would be an uncomfortable experience as they struggle between what their heart tells them is right—and what a religious authority structure threatens them not to do. I’ve been blessed with many, many new friends. My reasons for standing up actually have to do with confronting authoritarian injustice. I don’t think it’s right to use the costume of “religious freedom” to disguise an organization’s manipulative attempts to keep their followers from exercising their own freedom. And while I acknowledge the “Serenity Prayer” on your mom’s calendar, the fact is lots of people have been helped to see they were in a misguided high pressure group, so I don’t consider it one of those things I just have to “accept,” turning a blind eye.

    Yes, it might be sad to see people who continue to be affected by the captivity of their families. But you know what is at least as sad? Watching someone choose to wear a helmet/mask unit that connects to their cerebral cortex and lets them live in a world of pathetically incorrect virtual reality, while their lives pass them by. Certainly, if after conducting an objective investigation into the facts, they decide to put that unit back on, it is their choice. But when they are craftily maneuvered, with the help of vicious social threats, not to look at all the information? I reserve the right to try and reach these ones, if they are open to listening.

    And so, John, for those cool, rational individuals I now meet who, like I used to do, ask of ex-JWs, "Why so negative?" I ask them to remember something extremely important. It was not former Jehovah’s Witnesses who decided to start being negative here. They'd have been happy to leave peaceably, still maintaining good relationships with friends and family within. It was the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society who decided they would not have it. They would not tolerate people questioning, challenging, or deciding to leave. It is they who decided to create an adversarial relationship with any who dared not accept their authority, inventing the remarkable spin that it is these cast off ones who are beating them!

    And it is with reference to them that I again ask, "Why so negative?”

    “I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do.” -D. Dale Gulledge, Author

    And now for the encouraging part! LOL! John, as I mentioned on the phone, I believe the Watchtower Society does an excellent job of convincing people that God has always worked through an organization of humans. So when former Witnesses ask, “Well what is The Truth then?” they are usually asking, “Well what formal religious organization of men has The Truth?” It is true that I told you I didn’t think there was any such organization. But it very definitely is not true that I haven’t found “something better.” Indeed I have. And, although since you and I have a common background in the Watchtower Society, you’ve heard what I have to say about that subject, you should know that the significant majority of my life is spent—not in things associated with that—but in living my life as fully, confidently and honestly as possible.

    What I’ve found is spiritual freedom. The state of determining for myself what I will believe, as opposed to being pressured and threatened to accept another person’s conclusions. I can read whatever I find interesting, think about things I want to dwell upon, and speak freely with others about whatever we feel like discussing. I no longer fear that a religious order will try to punish me for making personal decisions that don’t correspond to their decrees in nearly every area of life. Nor do I fear that a God sits, smugly, arms folded, looking out over the vast number of organized religions, all full of people who believe only they have The Truth, and saying, “You’d better choose right!!! Or I will destroy you!” Not at all. I personally believe that there exists an enormous source of energy. We can call it “God,” or we can call it “The Universe.” Because we and everything that surrounds us is also energy, I believe we are all interconnected. I believe the Universe is full of love, and that we have far more strength than we think to accomplish whatever we set our minds to. That if we only learn how to tap into this abundant energy, we will attract pretty much anything we focus on. Since coming into this understanding, I can truly say, “my peace is like a river, and my righteousness like the waves of the sea.”

    I wish for you the same. My congratulations in your finding some value in Native American spirituality, in being willing to have an open and free discussion, and in not allowing any group of humans to frighten you from those things.

    Best,
    Jon

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Brilliant, Confession! Bravo!!! So well presented.

    I hope for the best.

    Love,
    Baba.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Great response. Even if he doesn't appreciate or understand it, we do.

    Jon, my friend, if you have something / anything positive, encouraging, up-building to share, I'd love to hear it!!!

    Six billion people are not going to be destroyed by Hojovah for ignoring a small group of false prophets in Brooklyn NY.

    B the X

  • steve2
    steve2

    Jon,

    Your letter is well expressed and shows your compassion. Let's hope your old friend reads it all the way through. I do worry about its length, but the opening paragraphs are very validating of your friend's experience and may well encourage him to read further. All the best!

    steve2

  • Shawn10538
    Shawn10538

    Due to the following issues, I would like my account disabled or deleted:

    1. I have never gotten a response from the mods about any of the many concerns I have had over the last few years, be they technical difficulties, problems posting etc. I have been ignored. So, this complaint is about your bad service.

    2.I have been barred from starting new topics and severely limited in the number of posts I can make without explanation. Again, when I asked you (simon) through PM and other mods, I was ignored. Again, bad service. No service.

    3. The increasing attitude of censorship on the board and your own (Simon's) blatant, cocky arrogance and disinterest in customer satisfaction is not the type of movement I wish to be a part of.

    4. I am not understood by very many on this board, so my contributions are valueless and a waste of time for everybody.

    Shawn Dean

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    I have had a few encounters with Jw's [still in] who immediately put up the 'blast shield' when confronted with even the slightest hint of criticism of the organization. Even some who never fully attached, or others who have been disfellowshipped, seem uncomfortable with any facts that countermand the idea that they can someday 'flee to God's place of protection'.

    This guy seems to be quite ready to Bible-thump anyone daring to tread on his personal choice of religion. He readily used the opportunity to 'counsel' you, didn't he? I have a cousin like that. He has never been a JW - but was raised with the religion as the 'family heirloom'. Every email I exchange with him that honestly examines the Jw religion, he ends with something like "May Jehovah forgive us for anything we have said here that may have offended Him."

    The religion certainly injects fear into the hearts of it's adherents, doesn't it?

    I look forward to your reply when posted, Jon.

    Jeff

    Edited to add: Oops! Should have looked at page two before I posted. Now I shall go and look at your reply. Silly me.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    That is an excellent letter, well done.

    While they had their reasons for staying away, they loved to be able to say, “But I still believe it’s The Truth!”

    I have a coworker that is much the same as your friend - not active at all in the faith, but is still very sentimental about JWism and is intolerant of criticism. I think what it comes down to is the same fears that active JW's have when it comes to apostates - fear that all these absolutes that they've accepted aren't true and that there really aren't any sure things in life.

  • MeneMene
    MeneMene

    Excellent response.

    A gold star for you -

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