Forscher, U seem fairly straight forward and direct. I'd like to hear more of your opinion even if I don't agree
Mexico angry at the influx of Mexicans into Mexico...
by zeroday 91 Replies latest jw friends
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beksbks
I really could have responded much more creatively as you and Hill habitually do. But I am above that and consider it quite crude and disrespectful. Are you really of the opinion that that somehow make me less intelligent than you? Come on, since you are going down that road lets get it all out in the open.
Huh?
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Forscher
Forscher, U seem fairly straight forward and direct. I'd like to hear more of your opinion even if I don't agree.
Which opinion voiced here WH? I'll be happy to address it though it is getting late and I may have to break off and return later.
Huh?
I see no ambiguity in my post Beks. As tempting as it is I am not going to post the response which so handily comes to mind because I am trying to be direct and respectful.
Forscher
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wha happened?
it was a general comment for more discussion
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beksbks
Forsch, you are responding to your own assumption in that comment. I'm sorry I do not follow you, as I have no idea what road you are talking about.
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Forscher
Since plain English seems to be a problem,
I really could have responded much more creatively as you and Hill habitually do. But I am above that and consider it quite crude and disrespectful. Are you really of the opinion that that somehow make me less intelligent than you? Come on, since you are going down that road lets get it all out in the open.
I still fail to see the ambiguity. Let me restate it. Simply put, you and Hill respond to pretty much every thing I say with an insult regarding my intelligence. It often seems creativity and rudeness seem to be the only measure effectiveness you folks apply. You never address what I have to say on its merits. Instead, you choose the medium of the the personal insult. I, on the other hand try to keep the discussion on the merits of the argument. Is that clear enough on the first two sentences?
With that in mind my question should be obvious. You seem to believe that the true measure of one's intelligence is the creativity of one's personal put-down one's opponent. At least that is the impression I get from years of interaction with you. Is It?
Frankly I am tired of your attitude and intend to make it the real issue despite the fact it diverts the thread.
Forscher
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BurnTheShips
I mean really, point it out. I'm a Mexican and I guess I missed the boat with the magic card. Does the magic card have other abilities? Is it a get out of jail card? Will it get me into a VIP room to see Paris Hilton? Will it give me a down payment on a home?
I've had to listen to this stupid red neck mentality all my life because these 'tards thought they were talking to a Caucasian because I don't have an accent, I'm faired skin, and I don't listen to Banda.
Honestly I want all people, (and I mean all people), in this country accounted for so that if anyone commits a crime, they are traceable.I'm fair skinned Hispanic too (but I listen to Salsa and Meringue), and I get the racist insults-from both sides. I've been called "pinche gringo" by others conversing among themselves before and when I turn and politely ask the time in Spanish, they blanch. On the other side, there is plenty of xenophobia. I remember one August in the hot afternoon sun digging in a ditch where the water just flows back up into your digging at a construction site fixing the F-up of my redneck foreman. Toothless jackass hocks up a brown baccy laced spitshot into the ditch next to me and stupidly grins saying "hurry up Cubie"! I quit and started school.'Now I've got not problems with Mexicans (you can't when they marry into the family) and Rednecks (have lots of friends) but there is plenty of racism all around.
BTS
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Big Tex
I usually disagree with Ruben Navarette, but I've always read his columns going back to when he worked at The Dallas Morning News.
But he posted an article on CNN.com a couple of weeks ago about immigration reform that really makes sense to me. I also agree with him that, unfortunately, neither political party, conservative or liberal, has the will or backbone to address this problem much less solve it. Anyway here's how he would reform illegal immigration:
But, if it were so inclined, here's what Congress should do:
1) By way of enforcement -- stiffen penalties against employers with a "three strikes" law (first offense, a warning; second, $10,000 fine; third, 10 days in jail); revise the 1996 Immigration Reform and Control Act by removing the word "knowingly," as in employers only face punishment if they knowingly hire an illegal immigrant; create an identification card; instead of adding more border patrol agents (the agency can't meet hiring goals as it is), give the agents already on the line better tools, including tunnel detection equipment; extend the deployment of the National Guard on the border, now set to expire on July 15; continue workplace raids but, for heaven's sake, arrest an employer every once in a while; and speed up deportations.
2) By way of legalizing the undocumented -- make it contingent on meeting enforcement goals, or "triggers"; establish a cutoff so that only those who can prove that they've been in the country for five years or more are eligible to apply for legal status and deport more recent arrivals; require applicants to learn English, pay a $5,000 fine, undergo criminal background checks, return to their home country to be processed, and take their place in the back of the line behind all those who are trying to enter the country legally; and, for those who are eventually given legal status, institute a lifetime ban on receiving welfare, Medicaid or food stamps but allow them to collect what they've contributed to Social Security.
3) By way of reforming the system for those who immigrate legally -- increase the allotment of green cards and work visas, including H1B visas for highly skilled workers; triple the number of legal immigrants currently admitted from 1 million to 3 million, or 1 percent of the total U.S. population; abandon the current system of using family reunification as the main criteria for admitting new immigrants but don't adopt the silly and offensive idea of a point system that rewards education and skills; instead, let the market drive the process by making labor demands the major criteria so (how's this for radical?) we always have jobs for those who come here instead of admitting engineers and doctors if what we really need are teachers and nurses.Chris
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cruzanheart
require applicants to learn English
Please!!! If I moved to Mexico or France, I would not expect to get a job unless I could speak Spanish or French fluently, so why do I have to try to remember my high school Spanish in order to get a cheeseburger with nothing on it at McDonald's? (And I don't live in a predominately Hispanic neighborhood, either, so there's really no reason for this.)
Nina
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XJW4EVR
Re. Navarette's "solutions"
1) By way of enforcement -- stiffen penalties against employers with a "three strikes" law (first offense, a warning; second, $10,000 fine; third, 10 days in jail); revise the 1996 Immigration Reform and Control Act by removing the word "knowingly," as in employers only face punishment if they knowingly hire an illegal immigrant; create an identification card; instead of adding more border patrol agents (the agency can't meet hiring goals as it is), give the agents already on the line better tools, including tunnel detection equipment; extend the deployment of the National Guard on the border, now set to expire on July 15; continue workplace raids but, for heaven's sake, arrest an employer every once in a while; and speed up deportations.
I really do not understand why liberals, like Navarette think that adding more laws will effect change. Why not enforce the laws that are already on the books? I agree with Navarette about the term "knowingly." It was the bone that government slipped to business in order to get their support. I do believe that having some sort of data base which can confirm the legitimacy of identification documents in order to establish the ability to work legally in this country is necessary. Navarette asks for better tools, but does not want more Border Patrol agants. This I do not understand, as the more eyes there are on the border the great the disincentive to come across. Many pro-border security groups have asked for National Guard at the border. Unfortunately, the open border advocates have consistently shouted this down. It would not surprise me if those open border types do not begin calling Navarette a "vendido" (sell-out). Lastly, Navarette asks for an arrest of a business owner, this I could not agree with more. Unfortunately, many government officials from "sanctuary" cities such as Los Angeles' current mayor and former gangbanger, Tony Villar (you might know him as Antonio Villaraigosa), have partnered with businesses that want the ICE raids to end. Why do you think that is?
2) By way of legalizing the undocumented -- make it contingent on meeting enforcement goals, or "triggers"; establish a cutoff so that only those who can prove that they've been in the country for five years or more are eligible to apply for legal status and deport more recent arrivals; require applicants to learn English, pay a $5,000 fine, undergo criminal background checks, return to their home country to be processed, and take their place in the back of the line behind all those who are trying to enter the country legally; and, for those who are eventually given legal status, institute a lifetime ban on receiving welfare, Medicaid or food stamps but allow them to collect what they've contributed to Social Security.
Navarette will be called a "vendido" for this, for sure. However there is one issue that Navarette blatently omits, the children born in the United States by parents who are foreign nationals illegally residing in the United States. These "anchor babies" are the golden ticket to the benefits that Navarette wants to cut-off. The Section One of the 14th Amendment needs to be defined to exclude children of parents illegally residing in the United States. Section One clearly states, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." This sentence never applies to children of foreign dignitaries born in the United States, and it should be applied in the same manner to children of parents illegally residing in the United States.
3) By way of reforming the system for those who immigrate legally -- increase the allotment of green cards and work visas, including H1B visas for highly skilled workers; triple the number of legal immigrants currently admitted from 1 million to 3 million, or 1 percent of the total U.S. population; abandon the current system of using family reunification as the main criteria for admitting new immigrants but don't adopt the silly and offensive idea of a point system that rewards education and skills; instead, let the market drive the process by making labor demands the major criteria so (how's this for radical?) we always have jobs for those who come here instead of admitting engineers and doctors if what we really need are teachers and nurses.
Based on the fact that thousands of people lost their lives at the hands of 19 islamo-fascist terrorists in 2001, the current visa system does not need to be expanded but temporarily ended until a better way of tracking legal foreign nationals temporarily residing in the United States can be implemented. Nearly everyone of those terrorists where in violation of their visa status. I do not see the logic in expanding a system that is broken.
I believe that American citizenship should mean something. It should not be cheap, as we esteem lightly, that which does not cost us dearly. Navarette simply wants to cheapen the price that immigrants before him had to pay by lowering the bar for the new immigrants, the ones he has an ethnic affiliation with.
Now, I am half-Latino. I do not speak Spanish, I do not listen to banda, though I love mariachi music. I have an Anglo last name which caused me more problems in my school days than being a J-Dub. The reason is that I was raised in a region of the United States with a high percentage of Latinos. I was considered a "gringo" by them, and even now living in Los Angeles, I am considered a "vendido" because I value American citizenship. I am considered a "vendido" because I do not speak Spanish. I have been told that I do not know who I am because I identify myself as an American first and foremost. I have been called every name in the book by whites and blacks. Are there racists out there? Yes, there are. However, I honestly believe that there are a great deal of Americans that are against the rising tide of illegal immigration, not for ethno-centric reasons but because it is wrong.