Thanks Randy and Tom and all of you others for such a great share.
I left the org in 1977 before the sh!t hit the fan a few years later. I didn't know that till I started browsing here some three years ago. Yes, those were the pre-internet days.
I was aware of some of the Bethel problems in the late 50's from someone who worked there for nearly two years till a medical problem forced him to leave. After voicing my aspirations to this then-best friend, this veteran cautioned, "no, Lenny, you don't want to go there".
Ironically, he's the other grandfather of my grandchildren whom I've never seen face to face, or played with, or hugged.
Based partly on this thread, I hope my two grandsons ask this other granddad about his Bethel experiences. I hope that this current elder gives them similar advice to what he gave me more than 50 years ago. If not, and when they get old enough and still aspire to working at Bethel (despite their current worker purge) I can see that such an experience could help open their eyes -- turning into more of a negative than a positive for them.
Len Miller
Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
by Dogpatch 501 Replies latest jw friends
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Fatfreek
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Tom Cabeen
Quandry,
Thanks so much for your kind words. You write "One of the first posts I ever read on this forum was from a disfellowshipped woman who was told by the congregation that she was responsible for caring for her aged mother after being shunned for so many years her mother was a virtual stranger to her. Her mother had dementia, so there could be no relationship to resume, leaving the woman very bitter, and deservedly so."
I have almost the exact same situation, but I do not share her bitterness. I do have sadness for what we and she missed. But no bitterness. My release came as a result of forgiving her and all the people who wittingly or unwittingly (I can't figure out which) created this horrible situation. I had to forgive in order to move on. That does not mean that they won, if we forgive. We are the ones who win, for we are released from the pain when we forgive. Otherwise, we force ourselves to live the hurt again and again, on and on, like a person who is badly cut in a robbery, and then every day she cuts the wound open again, keeping the memory of the robbery alive and experiencing the pain over and over again. Meanwhile, the robber goes his merry way, spending her hard earned cash easily and never giving her a second thought.
I do not know all the things that motivated my mom to shun me, but I know that she loved me. It was probably harder for her to shun me than it was for me to be shunned. So I have forgiven all, and now I love her without guilt and without pain.
Once again, thanks for caring.
Tom -
wschroeder
TOM says: You may be thinking of Wynne Warren, rather than Wendy. The description you gave of her sounds right. She was then engaged to, and later married, a Bethelite named Warren Pake. She was pretty good friends with my wife and I (Gloria worked in the Computer Department for the last couple of years we were there. Wynne was from the midwest, St Louis if I remember right. Later, they left Bethel and moved out West, maybe Arizona, not sure about that. She was a pistol.
Wynne Warren.... Ummm!!
Yes, she was from St. Louis. I knew her before we arrived at Bethel... she some months before me. We were supposed to meet for a double date set up by her roommate, the daughter of the inventor and founder of the Rug Doctor business. I couldn't make it, so my pioneer roommate and another flunky made the appointment. It was a disaster... from the girls' point of view. My pioneer partner became totally enamored with her. He thought he was the smartest person in the world, and was relentless in his efforts to show off how big of a peanut he was. She was a tall, young, intelligent woman, and a manager at IBM. She had little patience for his chauvinism and arrogance, and she generally got the upper hand of their cajones competition which went on for a while. They never dated again. Wynne and I got along fine but never actually made another time to date. We lived 70 miles apart.
It didn't matter much to try again, both Wynne and myself soon got our invites to Bethel, and it was her St. Louis roommate that made all the moves for my attention from that point.
She married Warren Pake.... a really nice guy as I remember him. I always wondered what their relationship was really like. She was very smart but could also be mean about it. I often wondered if he was really up to the task. They left Bethel before me as I remember and I only recall her as unhappy at the end. Anyway, I wish the best for them... wherever they landed.
Tom, you mentioned Arizona. You know, the brother that came in with his family (wife, kids and all) to ensure that the new IBM 370's went and stayed online was from IBM in Arizona. I wonder if she took a job back at IBM with this connection now well established?
Warren -
Tom Cabeen
Hi Warren,
Have no idea where the Pakes ended up. I lost touch with them when we left Bethel. I heard some news about them several years ago through Jennifer Treece, (a long-time friend and my wife on "All Scripture is Beneficial", a radio show we made during the 70s). Jen and her brother Jim, who was also at Bethel, were from California. I think Jim ran the hand bindery, as I recall. Jen was also a dear friend of Wynne's.
Tom -
cathyk
All I remember is that Wynne was funny, smart, and never ONCE in the time she had me as her charge did she try to "witness" to me. I was very grateful. I also remembered thinking at the time that she would have been a great friend to have.
Bethel should have tried to arrange all their tours the same way. Then again, it was the '80s, and all you fire-breathin' 'postates were trying to take things over, so I guess they needed to be careful.
An odd side question: I did a quick Google search on her husband's name. Did he have a well-known physicist as his Dad? George Pake had four sons, one of whom is Warren Pake. George P. was a physicist who was a pioneer in computing.
Was Warren a JW all his life, or a convert?
Cathy
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Gamaliel
I don't know anything about the Pakes, except that I was invited to the wedding, and I calligraphed the invitation for them. (I just ran across it last week.)
I did like Wynne, and considered her a pretty good friend. Her intelligence was a breath of fresh air. She could laugh about things (and make fun of things) that JWs weren't supposed to, and not feel guilty about it. My roommate Randy M knew her from the Computer Dept, so the subject of conversation very often ran towards the ludicrous methods of trying to run a Computer Department with a decision-making process that let Bethel seniority win out over computer experience (and common sense).
Greg -
Dogpatch
Cab sez,
I do not share her bitterness. I do have sadness for what we and she missed. But no bitterness. My release came as a result of forgiving her and all the people who wittingly or unwittingly (I can't figure out which) created this horrible situation. I had to forgive in order to move on. That does not mean that they won, if we forgive.
That's a big reason Cab is still a good friend of mine after 28 years.
You have to see life as half-full or better, IMO. Don't allow others to poison the well, life is too short and its gone. Whatever you believe the future will hold: heaven, earth, or nothing... (well maybe excluding reincarnation), this is all you gots for here, folks. One run and that's it. Game over.
Anger, fear, resentment, guilt. Poisons that control us if we let them.
If someone were to make a caricature of how they perceive us, what would they imagine? An uptight, anal, insecure mess of a soul? Or someone who is in touch with all sides of themselves and knows how to make the best of what they have and enjoy life? That is what I learned form Cab. Not an easy lesson for me.
My timeless caricature on Cabeen would be him and Gloria enjoying that dinner with wine in 34 Orange with the air conditioning on, making fun of Harold Dies. Or something like that. :-))
Randy
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Dogpatch
OK CAB you would be proud of me. Or maybe not when you see the naked pictures of you and Gloria in the new Free Minds Journal!
Just kidding.
Anyway, the west coast pressroom has finished its run of apostate literature and the new Journal is now out:
for anyone who is not on our list, you can get a free sample but you need to send either a SASE with 2 ounce postage and at least 6X9 size to:
Free Minds Inc.
PO Box 3818
Manhattan Beach CA 90266
or a couple of bucks for overseas postage.
It has a condensation of the "best of" this thread as well as the recent changes. I only have 75 left tho, so git yer new releases now! :-))
Randy
PS You might recognize our fellow member (or ex-member) from Canada on the cover, with Carey Barber. SUCH a good shot!
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Quandry
Anger, fear, resentment, guilt. Poisons that control us if we let them.
Good advice. I will try to take it.
I let them have two years of my life, after they df'd my beautiful, never been in trouble before, sixteen year old daughter, berating and humiliating her, and accusing her of something she did not do, then calling her a liar. But the final straw was when they made her read a scripture that she was filth in God's eyes, and would burn in the fire with the devil and his angels. Then the "Spiritual Shepherd" announced, "You are disfellowshipped, and if you are still disfellowshipped when Armageddon comes, you can take some comfort in knowing that Jehovah can read hearts."
Ah, yes, a heaping helping of bitterness for me and her dad. Did you know that you can have shingles all over your back and not even be aware of it for weeks even though it causes alot of pain?
We are better now, and some of the thanks goes to this forum, and kind ones on it who offer good advice.
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Dogpatch
Quandry says,
I let them have two years of my life, after they df'd my beautiful, never been in trouble before, sixteen year old daughter, berating and humiliating her, and accusing her of something she did not do, then calling her a liar. But the final straw was when they made her read a scripture that she was filth in God's eyes, and would burn in the fire with the devil and his angels. Then the "Spiritual Shepherd" announced, "You are disfellowshipped, and if you are still disfellowshipped when Armageddon comes, you can take some comfort in knowing that Jehovah can read hearts."
They did this to my sister, while my brother-in-law watched them do it. I wish I was there, it made me so pissed off.
The parting blow on their part is an intended, final act of debasing you! Get you in a meeting and degrade you in "public."
They want to terminate their dealing with you by creating a final image, an evil image, that they can write you off with in their minds. It is one of DEFEAT, EMBARRASSMENT, and FEAR, laced withv GUILT. Armed with this image, they never havew to even think about you again. Like a thought-terminating cliche' , only a thought-terminating IMAGE of you.
Leave them with a more shocking image: one of a happy, healing person who has a long way to go, but is now free.
Randy
