by Awakened at Gilead 74 Replies latest members adult
I WILL NEVER COMPREHEND WHY THEY CONTINUE TO STAY SILENT WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THEY HAVE, WHILE CHILDREN STAY TRAPPED.
I faded, mostly to help get my kids out. After about 5 years, I have one in college, one headed to college in the fall, and neither is a JW.
Next in line: My husband.
And I totally agree with Mickey Mouse's comment.
GGG
I'm becoming more and more convinced that the real success of the JW control structure is that people who want out, want out so bad...... that they leave. Those who stay, accept the rules or at least diligently avoid detection of rule-breaking.
The real achilles heal, is to have a congregation of gossiping skeptical witnesses who ask questions and talk "as openly as feasible" about what they think about things. No more Oprah-like head-nodding, real conversation, real discussion, real opinions, real doubts, real people, no shame. (Hell, if it was like that I would have stayed). Sure, there would be counciling, there would be special needs talks, there would be sheparding in by hounders, and 'thou ought not' people. BUT, if the oppressed just took the view that they are members of this community, stay there, and just cope with it, imagine what a "witness" that would be?
People are unimpressed when a deviant, sexually active, drug user gets DF'd. Every member of the congregation is muttering "BOOYAH" under their breath and their self-righteousness is fortified. How long would it take for a congregation to come falling into the Light as good person after good person gets DF'd directly for thinking freely, directly for failing to obey the rules of the Pharisees? Watching in real time as the organization acts unfairly to people YOU KNOW would surely be a fine witness, would it not? the methods of control would be clear on their face and surely "the light would shine brighter".
Hell, if there was any "Backpressure" at all in this religion, it would be mainstream by now. Even the flippin' Catholics are cooling their jets nowadays.
What if 30% of the people showing up to every meeting were respectful, but unafraid freethinkers? Its kinda like "What if there was a war and nobody came?" Probably can't happen, but if it did, it would change things for sure. I used to "think" that Jehovah's Witnesses were not a "religion" and certainly not a "cult", "we" were diligent, FREE, Bible Students diligently and honestly trying to succeed where "false Religion" had failed. I was actually kinda proud to be the only JW in my school. I didn't think I was part of "an organization" I thought I was associated with a loosely organized group of super-honest and good people that try to excel at being good, being wise where others are foolish. Nothing wrong with that. It turns out the Super-good people are super-good because they can't think for themselves and are highly impressionable, this ruled out my membership and sent me skipping on my ass out of the garden.
Its mute now that I've taken the red pill on the Bible itself, but I really would have supported something healthy like freethinking people who gather to figure out what "this is all about". I'm still looking for "my people". I like Athiests, but they're too hung up on being the Smartypants that knows Religion is crap and making cute sarcastic jokes about how stupid believers are (which are really, really funny, but are not providence). I feel like Athiests should be commended for catching up to where I was at 13 years old. What now brown cow? We have a problem here people, we don't know what the fuck we are. Don't know how you ddn't notice, but we definitely have a problem which needs some attention in this area. There is truth to be found in life. Something happened.
Bring_the_Light
On page 2 Sincerity Said: Being away for gosh probable15 years I at times find myself saying oh should I say that or what if I am wrong.
"Should I say that" is something I should probably ask myself more often, so no empathy there. Too much internet debating has left me short of restraint in the real world.
On "What if I am wrong?", definitely not wrong on "the choice" to leave the borg, BUT I'm absolutely paranoid of thinking anything irrational now. I can't even imagine "believing" completely in anything now, because I'm sure I'd be compromising, to go through all I've been through just to settle back into moronism would seem like such a waste. There doesn't seem to be any gray area between being a freethinker and being in the borg, if you have escaped the borg. "Worldly" people don't seem to have much problem, because they're still living in "the reality with which they were presented", LEAVING the "reality with which you were presented", doesn't exactly allow you to fall into some other random set of illusions, it is forever tumbling down the rabbit hole.
Bring_the_Light
AWAKENED at GILEAD - Hey dude ! How ya doin' ? Good thread! I think from my experience I have learned that there are some witness family members I can be more opinionated with about my doubts with the organization ( for instance my mother) and they won't have a problem with it- because she's cool. But my daughter, a regular pioneer, I have to be very careful with - as she is very sensitive still to me leaving the organization 5 years ago - so I try to stay on non-witness topics with her. Then some of my family members don't even talk to me , they have marked me, like my older ex-gilead ( no offense) sister and my ex-Bethel brother . Doesn't bother me- cause I don't like em' anyway.
So, I don't think it's a case of either do it this way, or do it that way- we all have different circumstances to deal with ! That is the one thing I think you will discover being out of the witnesses - that you will lose the witness black and white thinking in time. Life is a shades of gray type thing - there are so many variables that come up in life- you can never predict which way the wind is going to blow- one little jewel I've learned anyway. So with your wife- don't give up. It's a real roll of the dice with her. Just try to be authentic, real with her , if you love her, show her love, if she accepts you as you are she will roll with it, if in time she does not, it can't be helped. Be prepared for both eventualities though my friend. Take good care, and good luck, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
Hi Flipper,
Yes, I am learning to be somewhat less vocal, though its tough... I just got off the phone with an old friend of mine who used to be a CO in Ecuador, before he was Dfd and now is reinstated. I told him that I don't believe in the org anymore... He wasn't taken aback or surprised, but tried to reason with me... Of course I know too much so JW reasoning will be ineffective ("Do you believe the end is coming?" To which I replied, "which end, 1914, 1925, 1940's, 1975, or a future date?", etc.) TBC...
And my mother is similar to yours. I can speak freely to her about my witness disbelief and she is OK with it. She likely has her share of doubts.
Thanks for the encouragement to stick it out. I am not trying to rush the situation, but I am standing my ground with her and winning some battles for my free mind.
And to the other posters on this thread, thanks for shraing your experiences. It's true we all have different circumstances, so we must do what's best for ourselves and our family... although sometimes it seems (to me at least) as though some may be too fearful of sharing their dissenting JW view, and go on like this for years. Who knows if the spouse feels the same and is equally doubtful about JWs? And no JW spouse is technically allowed to leave someone just because the exJW spouse differs in opinion with the dubs... unless the xJW is actively opposing the dub spouse...
Cheers..
AG: although sometimes it seems (to me at least) as though some may be too fearful of sharing their dissenting JW view, and go on like this for years. Who knows if the spouse feels the same and is equally doubtful about JWs?
Even if fading, you have to let your wife and kids know the real deal, or at least how strong your doubts are. I let my friends, including elders know too....so now I pretty much dont have any friends. I was very vocal about many things, and I guess one thing to consider is that once they do know how you feel.....clearly........you will pretty much drive them nuts and to despair if you keep trying to prove your point. So far I have only met two couples (friends) that pretty much have JWD thoughts established...but they already had figured it out...it was not me. No one shared anything we me to wake me up either.
So far I have been totally unsuccessful at waking up any friends or family, and I am going on two to three years as a fader....Who is to say if I was more direct like Dawg, I might have been more effective.......I will keep trying when I can.....................oompa
btw, while I am not da or df, I have been dang direct to my family and friends....driving quite a wedge there unfortunately
Why do we keep our thoughts to ourselves? Let's see... does anybody WANT to be shunned, especially by family? I don't. End of discussion.
I appreciate your comments, yet still don't get it.sKally
SO sad to see how fear rules. I speak of the conditioned fear of engrained through thought control; fear of Jah, and of course fear of WT who have the power to rip your life, (family and friends) out from under you if you speak a foreign tongue.
In my case, I tried to fade quietly for the purpose of preserving some of those relationships. In a state of "inactive" the "friends" kept encouraging me, preaching to me, sickening me. I knew better and felt no honor for not only laying over for it, but for not attempting to help them. So I changed course, got off the path of least resistance, and started to get a few thinking. I know I made great logical sense. I know I was kind and patient, never pushy. Still some reacted badly, in eradic defensiveness, which I got used to. I planted seeds and always ended with, "if you ever want to talk, I'm here." Always careful not to let things get too far out there. Soon enough word of my "foreign tongue" got back, the elders pushed for my decision. I sent a dignified letter of good bye explaining my growth, intellectually and spiritually, which I was proud of, and would not be denied the right to. Long story short, less than a week later I had the dreaded label on me. Not I knew what freedom felt like. I was free and have not lost the high since.
I try to never lose the heart for the jdubs, as they're so misled; trained seals, respectuflly. (I was one of them for 25 years so I trust I don't offend anyone with the obvious.) I never pass up an opportunity to show them kindness and in their face with it a bit. To help them to see the fear and judgment is there, not here. And I show them in small ways that freedom rocks. Living well is the best revenge.
But pushing, forcing...nah. Ineffective. Sometimes if you want to capture somoenes attention, just whisper. I did this my jdub mother. After 10 months she called and said, WHAT??!!! What could make you do this? I said, I'm glad you asked. She made her decision last month to leave the WT org after 35 years of extremely faithful service. She's through with it. And she's helped one "out" in her hall already, One more on the way.
I'm going on. SO much good stuff going on. Remember, LOVE. That's what I meant to say here. Best of luck. (did I say luck--oops :( Ha.
I didn't want to post certain information due to fear of being disfellowshiped....why should my mother, in the last years of her life have to suffer...after she dies I will be protesting in front of the Watchtower headqauters butt naked. No fear.
