by minimus 239 Replies latest jw friends
"The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".
Surely thats just a personal interpretation rather than a correct interpretation.
Paul
reniaa
You asked a question of ex-jws turned Catholic: "Do you now think we will all be eternally tortured in a fiery Hell?"
I answered that question honestly, in line with the official Catholic definition of hell from its official catechism (paragraph 1035).
Your response is to post some non-official interpretations of Catholic doctrine you found on ReligiousTolerance.org, a web site managed by an Atheist, an Agnostic, a Christian, a Wiccan and a Zen Buddhist. You compare quotes you found there with quotes from Pope John Paul II and charge the church with softening its Hell stance to make it more main stream.
Finally, you compare that "discrepancy" with the Watchtower Society's own reinterpretation in its own official publications of "the generation" due to yet another in a long string of failed predictions and interpretations.
If you cannot see the difference between these things, I doubt there is anything I can say to clarify it for you. Sorry.
Tom
"The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".
I am getting the hang of this now. The Bible is not God’s Word but written by from a human perspective. An ancient and more primitive one full of anthropomorphism.
So we take a take a more nuanced and sophisticated view of any part of the Bible we like and interpret it to mean whatever we want it to. This explains how we have come to have so many Bible based religions that all believe different things.
Let me have a go at this - it looks like fun.
HELL is suffering among humans caused a number of things:
Giving in to greed and amassing material possessions bought on credit .
The burning ravages of sexually transmitted diseases caught from ignoring the Bibles commands regarding chastity in favour of satisfying lustful cravings.
Also a burning sensation in the throat caused by the way non-Christians pollute the air in their quest for pleasure and material gain which would include radiation fallout.
It is all starting to make sense now.
Who is the Pope Christ in the flesh or man?
Well he is not mentioned in the Bible at all - so let's spin him around and see whether he lands heads or tails.
trevor
Interestingly, I'm beginning to understand "hell" as I never had before (or it was never so well articulated): eternal life apart from God is a result of choosing (on a day-to-day basis) a life apart from God. It's the same issue that was presented to mankind from the get-go: "And the LORD God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.'" (Gen 3) In essence, God has respected our choices and allowed us to become "gods unto ourselves." Unfortunately, I live in a world dominated by those those who continue to choose spiritual "victim-hood," those who feel they are entitled to decide poorly and reap the benefits of those who choose well. Those and a significant number of folks who just choose not to think about (painful) cause-and-effect. Why not hell? Been there, done that. I choose not to go there again. Thanks, Tom.
Peace,
Carlos
Nice job ranaii. I think what you are forgetting Tom C, or trying to overlook is that the catholic church HAS changed its views on a number of things, such as hell, just as the JW's have as Ranaii has pointed out very well.
Tom
You make a fair point, I'm sorry if I came across too harshly I actually respect you a lot for your williness to come forward and stand by your faith.
You do better than a lot on this forum that get so involved and wrapped up in their hatred of WTs they become anti-witnesses of a sort unable to move on and while in many cases it's because family members are still JWs, I can't help feeling that its a lot healthier to do as you have done and find a belief that they are happier in
reniaa
Reniaa,
Thank you for your honest expression. Perhaps I can share with you some unsolicited advice:
Many years ago, I ran across a quote which made a deep impression on me. I printed it out and it hung on my wall for several years. It is from Solomon ben Gabirol, a Jewish rabbi who lived about a thousand years ago and had a good deal of influence on the Christians of his day. He said (I am quoting from memory here):
"A fool rejoices when he discovers error; a wise man rejoices when he discovers truth."
This quote impressed me so much because it conjured up in my mind a mental picture of the method so many use to analyze things. They spend a lot of time trying to discover if things are false, and every time they do that, they congratulate themselves on seeing through another lie. There is little to be gained in proportion to the effort expended from that type of endeavor.
If that same amount of effort is invested in becoming informed about things that can be verified to a reasonable degree, then each thing one learns contributes toward building a correct model of reality, which is what truth is. You gain something you can live by each and every time you do it.
I resolved to take Solomon ben Gabirol's approach. The result has made me so much happier than I was when I was looking for error. I highly recommend it.
Your brother,
Tom
"A fool rejoices when he discovers error; a wise man rejoices when he discovers truth."
Thank you Tom it's a very good quote I like and I will remember it, also one I think a lot on this forum could benefit from listening too :)
Take care
reniaa
tom
you are a very pleasant person.i can only wish i was that way.i have to disagree with you on two points.when it comes to hell-the jws and other groups have it right.it can be proven with the scriptures.also the catholic church has been the biggest enemy of the bible over the years-burning people at the stake for having one.the catholic church still exists because god has not brought his punishment upon it yet.it well fits the description of babylon the great in revelation.i want to thank you on your perspective of how jws view the world.that has helped me in not giving in to my weakness of wanting to go back to the wts just to feel secure.my new view is that not one group posesses all the truth.when jesus returns he will instruct us.
