Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-04-08 WT Study (MARRIAGE)

by blondie 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie
    blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-04-08 WT Study (March 15, 2008, pages 7-11 )(JOY/MARRIAGE)Review comments will be in redWT material from today's WT will be in black
    Quotes from other sources will be in quotes boxes
    w = Watchtower
    g = Awake
    jv = Proclaimers book

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    FIND JOY IN YOUR MARRIAGE"By wisdom a household will be built up, and by discernment it will prove firmly established."--PROV. 24:3 (OT)

    Opening Comments

    Divorce seems to be frequent in the WTS. I can remember in one congregation 5 couples were separated. I could look around the last congregation I was in and see 15 couples that had divorced as jws and remarried. Since I have left you can add 15 more to that. What do think is contributing to so many unhappy marriages in the land of the happiest people on earth? Do you think the status of women in the Christian congregation was an improve over the Jewish model: Prisca, Dorcas, Mary, Martha, Phoebe, etc.? Why use an OT scripture then?

    START OF ARTICLE

    Q. (1) How did God show wisdom regarding the first man?
    (1) OUR wise heavenly Father knows what is good for us. For example, God recognized that for His purpose to be accomplished, it was "not good for the man to continue by himself" in the garden of Eden. A key element of that purpose was for married people to have children and "fill the earth." -Gen.1:28; 2:18.

    "not good for the man to continue by himself"--evidently then married men were to prosper more than single men.

    Is it true that there was no word for "bachelor" in Hebrew?

    *** it-2 p. 340 Marriage ***

    Marriage was the normal way of life among the Hebrews. There is no word for bachelor in the Hebrew Scriptures. The basic purpose of marriage being to have children, the statement of blessing by Rebekah’s family is understandable: “May you become thousands times ten thousand” (Ge 24:60), also Rachel’s appeal to Jacob: “Give me children or otherwise I shall be a dead woman.”—Ge 30:1.

    Since the WTS models itself so much on the Law and the Israelite nation, why isn't marriage pushed and having children. Can the WTS pick and choose?

    How does this fit in with what Paul wrote:

    (1 Corinthians 7:38) Consequently he also that gives his virginity in marriage does well, but he that does not give it in marriage will do better.
    (1 Corinthians 7:29-35) 29 Moreover, this I say, brothers, the time left is reduced. Henceforth let those who have wives be as though they had none, 30 and also those who weep be as those who do not weep, and those who rejoice as those who do not rejoice, and those who buy as those not possessing, 31 and those making use of the world as those not using it to the full; for the scene of this world is changing. 32 Indeed, I want YOU to be free from anxiety. The unmarried man is anxious for the things of the Lord, how he may gain the Lord’s approval. 33 But the married man is anxious for the things of the world, how he may gain the approval of his wife, 34 and he is divided. Further, the unmarried woman, and the virgin, is anxious for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in her body and in her spirit. However, the married woman is anxious for the things of the world, how she may gain the approval of her husband. 35 But this I am saying for YOUR personal advantage, not that I may cast a noose upon YOU, but to move YOU to that which is becoming and that which means constant attendance upon the Lord without distraction.

    Q. (2) What arrangement did Jehovah make for the benefit of mankind?
    2 "I am going to make a helper for him," said Jehovah, " as a complement of him." God then had the first "man fall into a deep sleep, and from his perfect body He took a rib and built that into a woman. When Jehovah brought this perfect woman, Eve, to Adam, the man said: "This is at last bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one will be called Woman, because from man this one was taken." Eve was truly a complement of Adam. Each would display particular attributes and qualities, yet both were perfect and made in God's image. Thus Jehovah arranged the first marriage. Adam and Eve had no trouble accepting this divine arrangement that would provide mutual help and support.-Gen.1:27; 2:21-23.

    "helper...complement"

    What really is a complement? Isn't it some that completes something else, that something that is better with the addition of the complement?

    1 a: something that fills up, completes, or makes perfect
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/complement

    Did the WTS always teach that women were made in God's image? Isn't there a qualifier?

    *** w72 7/15 p. 445 Woman’s Regard for Headship—How Demonstrated? ***

    It should be remembered that man was created first and for some time was alone, being in God’s image by himself. The woman was made from the man and was to be subject to the man. The woman’s position thus is one that cannot reflect God’s position of headship toward his creatures, and it is this matter of headship that is discussed in 1 Corinthians chapter 11. Jehovah God is not subject to anyone. Unlike the woman, the man does not have an earthly head over him when it comes to matters relating to his wife and children. Hence in this respect he alone is “God’s image.” In other respects, of course, the woman shares with the man in reflecting the admirable and lovable qualities of God.

    Q (3) How do many treat the gift of marriage, leading to what questions?
    3 Sadly, a rebellious spirit permeates the world today. The problems it engenders do not originate with God. Many scorn God's gift of marriage, considering it to be out-of-date, a source of frustration or conflict. Among many who do marry, divorce is common. Children may not be shown natural affection and may become bargaining chips in marital disputes. Many parents refuse to yield, even for the sake of peace and unity. (2 Tim. 3:3) How, then can joy in marriage be maintained in these critical times? What role does being yielding play in successfully resisting any marriage breakup? What can we learn from modern-day examples of those who have maintained joy in their marriage?

    "divorce is common"--how common is it in the WTS?

    http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/divorce.htm

    "By applying unselfish love in their marriages, Jehovah's Witnesses achieve stable relationships. In some countries one marriage out of every two or three ends in divorce. But the above-mentioned survey indicated that presently only 4.9 percent of the Witnesses are divorced or separated from their mates." Awake 1997 September 8 p.11 A People Taught to Love

    Jehovah's Witnesses generally believe they have better quality of marriage and an exceptionally low rate of divorce, as seen by comments on the Internet. This feeling is promoted by the Watchtower.

    "Indeed, those really willing to learn from Jehovah's Witnesses will discover something. What is that? How Bible truths can dramatically improve the quality of their lives…."Our marriage has never been better than it is now," they say. "We have so much to thank Jehovah for."" Watchtower 1990 May 15 p.21

    This article presents research from various countries that show the divorce rate of Jehovah's Witnesses is similar to the population average, and discusses why the comment in the above box is statistically misleading.

    Yielding to Jehovah’s Direction
    Q 4. (a) What direction did Paul give about marriage? (b) How do obedient Christians follow Paul’s direction?

    4. The Christian apostle Paul gave inspired direction to widows that if they chose to re-marry, they should do so "only in the Lord." (1 Cor. 7:39) This was not a new thought for Christians who had a Jewish background. God’s Law to Israel clearly directed that they were to "form no marriage alliance" with anyone from the surrounding pagan nations. Jehovah added an explanation that highlights the danger of disregarding this divine standard. "For [a non-Israelite] will turn your son from following me, and they will certainly serve other gods; and Jehovah’s anger will indeed blaze against you, and he will certainly annihilate you in a hurry." (Deut. 7:3,4) What stand does Jehovah expect his modern-day servants to take in this regard? Plainly a servant of God should choose as a marriage mate one who is "in the Lord," a dedicated, baptized fellow worshipper. Yielding to Jehovah’s direction in connection with this choice is the wise course.

    "only in the Lord"--what was really being said at Deut. 7:3,4? How does it harmonize with Deut. 21:10-14?

    (Deuteronomy 21:10-13) 10 “In case you go out to the battle against your enemies and Jehovah your God has given them into your hand and you have carried them away captive; 11 and you have seen among the captives a woman beautiful in form, and you have got attached to her and taken her for your wife, 12 you must then bring her into the midst of your house. She must now shave her head and attend to her nails, 13 and remove the mantle of her captivity from off her and dwell in your house and weep for her father and her mother a whole lunar month; and after that you should have relations with her, and you must take possession of her as your bride, and she must become your wife.

    Let's look at verses 1 and 2 in Deuteronomy, chapter 7; isn't the directive not to marry CANAANITES, not just non-Jews?

    (Deuteronomy 7:1-3) 7 “When Jehovah your God at last brings you into the land to which you are going so as to take possession of it, he must also clear away populous nations from before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations more populous and mighty than you are. 2 And Jehovah your God will certainly abandon them to you, and you must defeat them. You should without fail devote them to destruction. You must conclude no covenant with them nor show them any favor. 3 And you must form no marriage alliance with them. Your daughter you must not give to his son, and his daughter you must not take for your son.

    "servant of God"--only jws

    "dedicated, baptized fellow worshipper"--only jws

    The WTS teaches that any other person who claims to be Christian but is not a jw, is only a "so-called" or "professed" Christian.

    *** w96 2/15 p. 8 par. 1 We Have Reason to Cry Out for Joy ***

    Yet, as true Christians, Jehovah’s Witnesses have joy.

    *** w96 7/15 p. 23 What “Instinctively Wise” Creatures Can Teach Us ***

    Bearing in mind Jesus’ illustrative words, true Christians stick closely to the flock of God and meekly accept counsel from Jehovah’s organization.

    *** w04 11/15 p. 22 par. 12 Search for Jehovah, the Examiner of Hearts ***

    Although some professed Christians accept the truth of God’s Word, Christendom’s worship itself is not motivated by genuine love for God.

    Q. (5) How do Jehovah and married Christians view marriage vows?
    5. Marriage vows are sacred in God’s eyes. In reference to the first marriage, God’s own Son, Jesus, stated: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matt. 19:6) The psalmist reminds us of the seriousness of vows: "Offer thanksgiving as your sacrifice to God, and pay to the Most High your vows." (Ps. 50:14) Although great joy can lie ahead for a married couple, the vows exchanged on the wedding day are serious and bring responsibility. –Deut. 23:21

    Translation: Too many jws are getting divorced despite the pressure from the WTS. Even the disfellowshipping threat is not enough.

    *** w79 11/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

    In the unusual case brought up in the question, scheming and deceit may well have been manifest. For example, a man (perhaps himself married) gets infatuated with someone else’s wife. There then may be hidden flirting, secret meetings and unrevealed displays of passion. Lies and deceit may be used to keep this from others, particularly the innocent mate or mates. In time the pair might run off together, and after unscriptural divorce may marry each other. They may well have calculated the outcome, realizing that disfellowshiping will follow. But they think that “maybe in a year or so” they can claim repentance and get reinstated, thus having things just the way they want.

    Q. (6) We can learn what from the example of Jephthah?
    6. Consider the case of Jephthah, who served as judge in Israel in the 12th century BCE. He made this vow to Jehovah: "If you without fail give the sons of Ammon into my hand, it must also occur that the one coming out, who comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the sons of Ammon, must also become Jehovah’s, and I must offer that one up as a burnt offering." On seeing that it was his daughter, his only child, who came out to meet him on his return to his home in Mizpah, did Jephthah seek to break his vow? No. He said: "I have opened my mouth to Jehovah, and I am unable to turn back." (Judg. 11:30, 31, 35) Jephthah kept his promise to Jehovah, even though this meant that he would have no descendant to carry on his name. Jephthah’s vow was of a different sort than wedding vows, but his keeping it serves as a fine example for Christian husbands and wives as to their vows.

    Jephthah kept his promise, but why did his daughter have to pay the price? Are they saying that Jephthah could not have more children?

    Does that mean a woman should stay with an abusive husband? Is that what it means that God hates a divorcing? Evidently, not all the time.

    Jewish men were told to send away their non-Jewish wives and children. Does that mean someone should divorce their non-jw spouse when they become a jw?

    (Ezra 10:10-14) 10 At length Ezra the priest rose and said to them: “YOU yourselves have acted unfaithfully in that YOU gave a dwelling to foreign wives so as to add to the guiltiness of Israel. 11 And now make confession to Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers and do his pleasure and separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives.” 12 To this all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice: “Exactly according to your word it devolves upon us to do. 13 However, the people are many, and it is the season of showers of rain, and it is not possible to stand outside; and the business will not take one day or two, for we have rebelled to a great extent in this matter. 14 So, please, let our princes act representatively for all the congregation; and, as for all in our cities who have given a dwelling to foreign wives, let them come at the times appointed and along with them the older men of each individual city and its judges, until we have turned back the burning anger of our God from us, on account of this matter.”

    What Makes a Successful Marriage?
    Q (7) What adjustments do newlyweds need to make?

    Man married couples think back on their courtship with great fondness. How delightful it was to get to know their future mate! The more time they spent together, the closer they became. But, whether their marriage followed a period of courtship or was arranged, when they finally became husband and wife, adjustments were vital. One husband admits: "The major problem we had at the beginning of our marriage was to realize that we were not single anymore. For a while we found it difficult to keep our friendships and family ties in the right place." Another husband, now married for 30 years, realized early in his marriage that to be balanced, he had to "think plural." Before accepting an invitation or taking on a commitment, he consults with his wife and then decides, taking into consideration their mutual interests. In such a situation, being yielding helps.-Prov.13:10.

    So how much private time does the average jw couple get with the CHAPERONE policy that is required?

    *** w04 2/15 p. 13 par. 12 Maintain Chastity by Safeguarding Your Heart ***

    However, many Christian couples act wisely and avoid these dangers during courtship. (Proverbs 22:3) They limit their expressions of affection. They make use of chaperons and carefully avoid being alone together in isolated places.

    *** w99 9/1 p. 18 par. 15 Youths—Train Your Perceptive Powers! ***

    If you are dating, you are wise to avoid being alone with your prospective mate under inappropriate circumstances. So it may be best to enjoy each other’s association in a group setting or in public places. Some couples arrange to have a chaperon.

    So many jws marry young, barely 18, because of their sexual drive. Others marry young because the field is small to choose from, and in the case of females, increasingly smaller as they get older.

    Who is taught to be "yielding" by the WTS? The man?

    *** w06 3/1 p. 29 Questions From Readers ***

    Perhaps some sisters were challenging what was said in the congregation. Paul’s counsel helped sisters to shun such a disorderly spirit and humbly accept their position within Jehovah’s headship arrangement, particularly with regard to their husbands.

    *** w05 3/1 p. 16 par. 5 Wise Guidance for Married Couples ***

    Christian wives similarly do not disdain their husbands or seek to downplay the Scriptural arrangement of headship in marriage. Instead, they support and are submissive to their husbands, cooperate with them, and thus encourage them.

    Q 8, 9. (a) Why is good communication important? (b) In what areas will flexibility be of help, and why?
    8. Sometimes marriage unites two people who are from different cultural backgrounds. Here especially there is a need to communicate openly. Styles of communication differ. Observing how your marriage mate talks with relatives can help you understand your spouse better. At times, it is not what is said but how it is conveyed that reveals a person's inner thinking. And much may be learned from what is not said. (Prov. 16:24; Col. 4:6) Discernment is vital for happiness. — Read Proverbs 24:3.

    9. When it comes to choosing hobbies and recreation, many have found it important to be flexible. Before marriage your spouse may have spent time in sports or other recreational pursuits. Would some adjustment now be appropriate? (1 Tim. 4:8) The same might be asked about time spent with relatives. Understandably, a married couple need time so that they can pursue spiritual and other activities together.- (Matt. 6:3)

    So how many jws have married someone of a different culture: are they really saying a different race, nationality, education, social background?

    Is this the problem area in the WTS? As female jws desperately look for a husband, are they selecting unwisely? Isn't it more likely that they barely know the person and in the haste to clinch the deal before another sister does, or fearing to commit fornication, submit to their sexual drive rather than learn to control it? Most disfellowshippings are for adultery not fornication, indicating that marriage is no guarantee of self control.

    I knew so many men who never went in "field service" with their wives, never pre-studied for the book study or the WT study with their wives. I know of many wives who left their husbands because they never spent time together.

    What have you observed?

    Q (10) How will being yielding contribute to good relations between parents and married children?
    10. When a man marries, he leaves his father and his mother, and much the same can be said of a woman. (Read Genesis 2:24. ) Still, the divine guidance to honor one's father and mother comes with no time limit. So even after a couple marry, they will likely spend some time with their parents and in-laws. One husband, married for 25 years, notes: "At times, it is difficult to balance the various wishes and needs of one's mate with those of one's parents, siblings, and in-laws. In deciding how best to act, I have found Genesis 2:24 helpful. One owes loyalty to and has responsibilities toward other family members, yet this verse showed me that loyalty to my spouse takes precedence." Accordingly, Christian parents who are yielding will respect that their married children are now in a family unit in which the husband is principally responsible for guiding that family.

    Do men in the congregation put their family first? I have seen several marriages fall apart because the husband spent so much time in congregation duties that he had no time to conduct a family study, train his children how to speak about the kingdom, even ride in the same car to the meetings. Finally, the wife found companionship elsewhere and the children grew up viewing their father as a stranger.

    So parents are not to interfere in adult children lives, but what about the elders?
    Q (11, 12.) Why are family study and prayer important for married couples?
    11 A good routine of family study is essential. The experience of many Christian families bears out that fact. It may not be easy to establish such a study or to maintain it over time. One family head acknowledges: "If we could go back and change anything, it would be to make sure that we stuck to a good routine of family study from the start of our marriage." He adds: "It is such a wonderful gift to observe the joy my wife expresses when moved by some spiritual gem we find together in our study."

    12 Praying together is another aid. (Rom. 12:12) When husband and wife are united in the worship of Jehovah, their close relationship with God can strengthen the bond they enjoy in marriage. (Jas. 4:8) One Christian husband explains: "Quickly apologizing for mistakes and mentioning those errors when praying together is a way of showing sincere sorrow over even a minor matter that causes upset."-Eph.6:18.

    "praying together"--see above, first they have to be together and awake at the same time.

    "close relationship with God"--Where's Jesus?

    "Christian families"--only jws

    I know so many men who never studied with their children and definitely not with their wives, can't count the time.

    "Christian husband"--JW husband

    "quickly apologizing"--So how quick is the WTS to apologize for its mistakes? How many died not taking a transplant between 1967 and 1980?

    Like this about 1975:

    *** w76 7/15 p. 441 par. 15 A Solid Basis for Confidence ***

    But it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date, neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians, such as things that we and our families really need. We may be forgetting that, when the “day” comes, it will not change the principle that Christians must at all times take care of all their responsibilities. If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.

    Only 5 years later did the WTS even approach admitting their own part in the 1975 debacle:

    *** w80 3/15 pp. 17-18 par. 6 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***

    In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.

    Be Yielding Within the Marriage
    Q (13) What advice did Paul give on intimate relations in marriage?

    13. Married Christians need to avoid practices that degrade marital relations, such as those that are so common in today's sex mad world. On this subject, Paul counseled: "Let the husband render to his wife her due; but let the wife also do likewise to her husband. The wife does not exercise authority over her own body, but her husband does; likewise, also, the husband does not exercise authority over his own body, but his wife does." Then Paul provided this clear direction: "Do not be depriving each other of it, except by mutual consent for an appointed time." Why? "That you may devote time to prayer and may come together again, that Satan may not keep tempting you for your lack of self-regulation." (I Cor. 7:3-5) In mentioning prayer, Paul shows the priorities for a Christian. But he also made clear that each married Christian should be sensitive to the physical and emotional needs of his or her mate.

    "married Christians"--only jws

    "practices that degrade marital relations"--here the WTS is dancing around the topic.

    http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/index.php/watchtower_quotes/sexual-matters/oral/

    The WTS treated oral sex as a disfellowhipping matter until 1978. What about those who had been df'd before that?Beyond these basic guidelines the Scriptures do not go and, hence, we cannot do more than counsel in harmony with what the Bible does say. In the past some comments have appeared in this magazine in connection with certain unusual sex practices, such as oral sex, within marriage and these were equated with gross sexual immorality. On this basis the conclusion was reached that those engaging in such sex practices were subject to disfellowshiping if unrepentant. The view was taken that it was within the authority of congregational elders to investigate and act in a judicial capacity regarding such practices in the conjugal relationship.
    A careful further weighing of this matter, however, convinces us that, in view of the absence of clear Scriptural instruction, these are matters for which the married couple themselves must bear the responsibility before God and that these marital intimacies do not come within the province of the congregational elders to attempt to control nor to take disfellowshiping action with such matters as the sole basis.

    I have seen elders use this reasoning with women in the congregation excusing the husband's adultery.

    *** w73 6/1 p. 352 Questions From Readers ***

    The innocent mate may even have contributed toward the unfaithfulness of his or her marriage partner. If, for example, the wife has deliberately deprived her husband of the marital due, she bears a certain responsibility for what has happened. She is not altogether without blame from God’s standpoint, for the Bible admonishes: “Let the husband render to his wife her due; but let the wife also do likewise to her husband. . . . Do not be depriving each other of it, except by mutual consent for an appointed time, that you may devote time to prayer and may come together again, that Satan may not keep tempting you for your lack of self-regulation.”—1 Cor. 7:3-5.

    Q (14) How do Scriptural principles apply with regard to intimate relations in marriage?
    14 Husband and wife need to be open with each other and realize that a lack of tenderness in intimate relations can lead to problems. (Read Philippians 2:3, 4; compare Matthew 7:12.) This has proved true in some religiously divided families. Even if differences exist, the Christian can usually improve matters by good conduct, kindness, and cooperation. (Read 1 Peter 3: 1, 2. ) Love for Jehovah and for one's mate, combined with a yielding spirit, will help in this aspect of marriage.

    So if a non-jw husband is cut off from sex and commits adultery, will his jw wife be held accountable by the elders?

    Why is the WTS dancing around this topic?
    Q. (15) Respect plays what part in a happy marriage?
    15. In other aspects too, the kind husband will treat his wife with respect. For example, he will take her feelings into account, even in small matters. One husband of 47 years admits: "I am still learning in this regard." Christian wives are admonished to have deep respect for their husbands. (Eph. 5:33) Speaking negatively about their husbands, highlighting their faults in front of others, hardly shows respect. Proverbs 14:1 reminds us: "The truly wise woman has built up her house, but the foolish one tears it down with her own hands."

    Does this mean that husbands don't and shouldn't talk negatively about their wives?

    Do Not Yield to the Devil
    Q (16) How can couples apply Ephesians 4:26, 27 in their marriage?

    16. "Be wrathful, and yet do not sin; let the sun not set with you in a provoked state, neither allow place for the Devil." (Eph. 4:26, 27) When applied, these words can help us to solve or to avoid marital discord. "I don't remember ever having a disagreement and not talking it over with my husband even if this meant spending hours resolving the matter," recalls one sister. At the start of their marriage, she and her husband determined that they would not end the day without solving their differences. "We decided, no matter what the problem was, to forgive and forget and give each day a fresh start." They thus refused to "allow place for the Devil."

    "spending hours"--where did they find the time?

    "would not end the day without solving their differences"--how many grudges did you see in your congregation?
    Q (17) Even when marriage mates do not seem well matched, what may help?
    17. But what if you entered into a marriage arrangement unwisely? You may now find yourself in a relationship that may not seem as romantic as others enjoy. Still, your remembering the Creator's view of the marriage bond will help you. Under inspiration, Paul counseled Christians: "Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers." (Heb. 13:4) And not to be overlooked are the words: "A threefold cord cannot quickly be torn in two." (Eccl. 4:12) When both husband and wife are deeply concerned with the sanctification of Jehovah's name, they are bonded to each other and bonded to God. They ought to work at making their marriage a success, knowing that this will reflect well on Jehovah, the Originator of marriage.-1 Pet.3:11.

    Why can't they divorce their mates like the Israelites did in Ezra's time because they did not share the same religious views? Does that mean a jw can divorce a non-jw mate? Or a mate that is disfellowshipped or disassociated?

    Can you imagine contemplating eternity in a loveless, unromantic marriage, perhaps even one without sex?Q (18). Of what can you be sure regarding marriage?
    18. It certainly is possible for Christians to find joy in marriage. To do so takes effort and the displaying of Christian qualities, one of which is being yielding. Today, in the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses around the globe, there are countless married couples who prove that it can be done.

    "Christians"--only jws

    And there aren't countless non-jw married couples who are proving that they can find joy in their marriage?

    How Would You Answer?

    Why is finding joy in marriage not unrealistic?

    What can help a marriage to succeed?

    What qualities do marriage mates need to develop?

    CONCLUDING COMMENTS

    I learned last month that 3 marriages in my old congregation had dissolved, exploded by one spouse running off with another jw's spouse. The abandoned spouses no longer go to the meetings mired in depression. I can see why the WTS has written this article. But the offending spouses were all elders. If the so-called spiritual men are failing, what hope can the WTS have that the rank and file will not follow suit?

    Love, Blondie

  • zeroday
    zeroday

    I had an Elder Cousin that got divorced from his JW wife of 32 years...very mentally abusive marriage...she divorced him and he immediately stepped down as elder...his whold world crashed around him...no more lofty Elder lording it over the congo no more controlling husband and father (2 adult children 1 juvenile awarded to the mother) to boss around...he fell into a deep depression and then SUDDENLY found himself in the bed with a divorced sister and lets just say they were not studing the latest Watchtower...they then went running and crying to the BOE "WE'RE SORRY WE'RE SORRY" and low and behold were not DISFELLOWSHIPPED but merely put on public reprove and 'GO AHEAD AND GET MARRIED'" wink wink nod nod...love the "Good ole boys network"...4 months later I DA'ed myself...

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    Good job Blondie - I may grow some balls and comment more freely than usual on Sunday

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Yes, in the sexist view promoted by the WTS, the woman is a "complement". The completeness of the MAN is the important thing in the congregation. Marriage helps toward that end, in the JW's view.

    Their deliberate misapplication of 1 Corinthians 7 -- to "marry only in the Lord", is a sure mark of a cultish religion. That scripture was talking about remarriage, but the WT Society adds on its own thoughts to this verse (to stretch its meaning to apply to all JW marriages) and so many others to suit its purpose.

    Where are trained counsellors for people with marriage problems in the JW organization? The elders training consists of schools where they are told to encourage more JW activity as the resolution for most problems. That's no help at all. The rank-and-file Witnesses are discouraged from seeking helpful professional counseling when needed. Somehow that would indicate a "lack of trust in Jehovah" and open them up to "worldly" ideas. So the JW's with various problems (like marriage problems) just have to tough it out, and it doesn't always work out very well.

  • Metamorphosis
    Metamorphosis

    So when my wife moves out and refuses to move back in, and actually insists I get a divorce, since I have issues w/ the JW"S - even though I'm willing to forgive her for the sexual affair she has been having w/ a worldly man - is she or is she not following the council given? I say not, but she seems to have the support of everyone in the congro. There is a double standard for sure when one mate no longer supports the program.

    Morph

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    2 ....Eve was truly a complement of Adam. Each would display particular attributes and qualities, yet both were perfect and made in God's image.

    Did the WTS always teach that women were made in God's image? Isn't there a qualifier?

    This seems like a relatively new point (but not contradictory to any old points enough to
    be new light). I am sure it's a way to say "Women, us men run the organization, but you
    are okay too.)

    I seem to recall the WT saying that all the angels that forsook their position took women
    for themselves, that they were all masculine as Jehovah and Michael (Jesus) were.

    8. Sometimes marriage unites two people who are from different cultural backgrounds.

    So how many jws have married someone of a different culture: are they really saying a different race, nationality, education, social background?

    Is this the problem area in the WTS? As female jws desperately look for a husband, are they selecting unwisely? Isn't it more likely that they barely know the person and in the haste to clinch the deal before another sister does, or fearing to commit fornication, submit to their sexual drive rather than learn to control it? Most disfellowshippings are for adultery not fornication, indicating that marriage is no guarantee of self control.

    Those divorcing in the U.S. are typically young and occasionally of different races or
    education or social background. More typically, they just don't know each other.
    She thinks she can put up with whatever his personality is, he thinks he has a
    sexual plaything.

    Oh, the fornications are typically either hidden and no DF's result, or the elders get the
    fornicators back in line with policy. Adulterers are harder to get back in line because
    they want to get out of the marriage.

    I knew so many men who never went in "field service" with their wives, never pre-studied for the book study or the WT study with their wives. I know of many wives who left their husbands because they never spent time together.

    What have you observed?

    There were many men who didn't study or get out in the field circus. I didn't see that the
    wives were "leaving" these husbands until the husbands started finding something outside
    of the marriage.

    "quickly apologizing"-- So how quick is the WTS to apologize for its mistakes?

    I love your whole section on "quickly apologizing."

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    With all the hubbub about preventing couples from test-driving each other, it is a matter of blind luck to get happiness. In fact, people are to go by traits like pioneer, hounder, Beth Hellite, etc. to judge a potential partner. That is a guarantee that something is not going to work.

    This is what can happen when a trial is not allowed:

    One "brother" gets married. For the first few months, it is all OK. This "brother" is very controling, and not easily satisfied. He brings his wife to work, often late, from field circus (he is the reason she was hounded into becoming a regular pioneer). Strife builds up gradually, because he is always trying to cram in too much field circus and other things are allowed to slide. They are always in a big hurry.

    Some time later, they have a couple of children, thinking that will solve the problems. Instead, it is made worse. The children are now pawns in the conflicts, and there is even worse time pressure because of this. Money issues enter the picture now. Obviously, the marriage is not going to last much longer because this highly controling husband is belittling his wife for taking too long in getting the children ready for boasting sessions and out in field circus. This persists, and of course the wife eventually becomes cold and unloving toward this tyrant husband. Sex is withheld because obviously she does not feel like doing it with someone that is always rushing them past the breaking point. It is only a matter of time before one or both commit adultery.

    Had they had a trial run, she would have found out that he is a very controling person. Which is not going to work, if he wants them to pioneer and puts too much pressure on the partner to always get things done. She would have turned him down for being too controling, for the welfare of any children. Or, he would have realized that either he is going to have to be less controling and settle for reasonable field circus time, or be rejected. Either way, it would have been settled (either with amendments before getting together or a breakup before children came along). Little damage would have been done.

    But no, the Washtowel Slaveholdery insists that fornication and trial living, even in cases where the couple is serious, is wrong. They put up so many obstacles from getting to know each other intimately before making the final commitment that they go in blind, and one turns out to be a tyrant while the other resents serving him. Better to do the trial and bust it up early than to go in blind, have a few children, and then bust it up.

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    I used to hate these marriage talks. When I would get home my wife would give me hell for not meeting the wt standard of a good christian husband.

    Now that she is my ex-wife I can only assume that she will be cursing me under her breath during the whole watchtower study.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    With all the hubbub about preventing couples from test-driving each other, it is a matter of blind luck to get happiness. In fact, people are to go by traits like pioneer, hounder, Beth Hellite, etc. to judge a potential partner.

    This makes me reflect on my marriage. The wife was looking for a "spiritual" man.
    I was looking for a positive outgoing personality. We are still together because we
    have fit well together, but my awakening and her remaining under the spell puts a
    strain on things.

    That made me think about the qualities she was looking for. A good number of
    "spiritual" ones in the JW organization actually do their research. That causes them
    to examine their own religion often. So the gung-ho ones often come out faster than
    the "weak" JW's. Like Bethelites discover problems before publishers. Pioneers
    get a better idea of the lack of love sooner than the publishers. Elders are more aware
    of the doctrinal changes than the publishers.

    Just some stray thoughts caused by reading this thread.

  • Hope4Others
    Hope4Others
    looking for a "spiritual" man.

    While some women may say this, I have heard some later say that they got tired of all the bible stuff from their

    'spiritual' mate. And wish they could of been more fun loving. We had 5 couples split in our cong. after long marriages only one of which

    was an elder.

    hope4others

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