by flipper 86 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
My husband and I seldom disagree on things.
But we had a heated argument about this.
He said.."It was wrong, the government had no right to take these children away."
I said..."What the freakin' hell! Which children to you want to send back? The ones that have been abused or the ones that haven't?"
lisa
Clyde and I are being visited occasionally by two Mormom "sisters." We'll probably let them step inside one more time. I know they will tell us that they have nothing to do with the FLDS, that it was a break-away group. They will remind us that their church hasn't practiced polygamy for something like 100 years.
However, since our last visit, I checked the Internet and found that their founder, Joseph Smith, had 33 wives, many of them as young as 14. First I will ask them how God could use a man like this to write down "additional" inspired writings, the Book of Mormon. Second, I will ask if they don't think that this FLDS group is emulating the example of Joseph Smith.
I wonder if they will deny that these women were actually his wives in a carnal sense.
Anybody think of additional questions? BTW, their next visit will be their last.
May 3, 3:38 AM (ET)(AP) In this Saturday, April 12, 2008 file photo, Dale Barlow leaves the Heritage building after being...Full ImageGoogle sponsored linksHow to Shrink Belly Fat ? - Lose 9 lbs every 11 Days with these 10 Idiot Proof Rules of Fat Loss.www.FatLoss4Idiots.comThe Speed Reading Rip-Off - I will tell you the secret behind speed reading for free & no classeswww.Free-SpeedReading-ReportELDORADO, Texas (AP) - An arrest warrant has been dropped for a man thought to be the husband of a teenage girl whose report of abuse triggered a raid on a polygamous sect's Texas compound, authorities said Friday. A Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman would not say why the warrant was dropped for Dale E. Barlow, 50, who lives in Colorado City, Ariz. Barlow has denied knowing the 16-year-old girl who called a crisis center. The girl reported that she was a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and that she was beaten and raped at the sect's Eldorado ranch. An investigation led to the April 3 raid, in which state welfare workers took 463 children living at the Yearning For Zion Ranch. A boy was born to one of the sect's mothers Tuesday; he and the other children remain in state custody. Authorities have not located the 16-year-old girl and are investigating the source of the call. Public Safety spokesman Tom Vinger would not say when the warrant for Barlow was dropped, only that "it is no longer active." Rob Parker, an FLDS spokesman, said the dropped warrant shows the weakness of the state's case against residents of the ranch. "I think that's just one more piece of evidence that the whole basis on which this raid was premised was unfounded and was inadequately checked out, to the formulation of what basically amounted to an army that went in there and took their children," Parker said. The phone number used to call the crisis center is the same one once used by a Colorado woman, identified as 33-year-old Rozita Swinton of Colorado Springs, accused of making previous false reports of abuse. Investigators have not said whether Swinton made the call to Texas authorities, though Vinger said she is "still considered a person of interest." "There is an investigation centering on that," Vinger said. "We have quite a bit of evidence that still needs to be analyzed." A judge has ruled that children removed from the ranch should stay in state custody until all can have a hearing. Child welfare officials told the judge the children were living in an authoritarian environment that left girls at risk of sexual abuse and raised boys to become sexual perpetrators. The FLDS is a group that splintered from the Mormon Church, which does not recognize the sect and disavows polygamy. In Utah, members of the polygamous church have asked the state's governor to intervene in its fight with Texas authorities over the custody the children. A letter written by FLDS elder Willie Jessop says Texas officials are rejecting Utah-issued birth certificates and other documents as "fake." The letter asks Gov. Jon Huntsman to exercise his executive authority to assist in protecting the civil rights of native Utahns and FLDS members. FLDS parents claim they have been denied their due process by the Texas courts. "Without your leadership and personal intervention in this matter, the parental rights of every Utah family is at risk," Jessop wrote. Huntsman spokeswoman Lisa Roskelly said the governor has been in contact with Jessop and was reviewing his request.
This is all about human rights versus religious rights.
The same toxic thinking that allows the FLDS allows fundamental Islamist and Christianist viewpoints where religious beliefs are held to trump human rights.
Thus in Islamist culture, the rights of women are infringed, freedom of speech is curtailed, and some even go as far as to wage 'religious war' in the form of terrorism against civilians.
Some Christianists (and I use that form to specify the worst of the worst, not your average moderate Christian) seek to force pseudo-science into the school curriculum and try to legislate to interfere with the freedoms of people who, whilst doing no real harm to others, live against Christianist religious scruples.
The FLDS infringe on the rights of minors through their restrictive education and wharped sexual practices.
Basically, any adult fool can believe what they like. Their right to religious freedom ends when they infinge on the freedoms of others by exercise of their beliefs.
The courts need to stand up to religious groups like the FLDS, and stand up for the children who are being denied their rights to ever BE ABLE to have freedom of choice because of their parent's choices. This same paradigm needs to be taken against religious fundy home-schoolers as a whole so their children cannot be wharped, even if the wharping is not sexual but just denial of a decent rounded education. In state schools, religious opt-outs of certain lessons should not be possible, again to ensure the childs right to a decent education is not impaired.
And any country that does not respect the rights of women should have trade embargoes slapped on them, even if they are stategically important allies with lots of oil and billions to spend on US-manufactured weapons.
GILL-I agree that one big problem is as you say - there is no adult males to protect these young girls and let them grow up normally , because the adult males in the group all have skewed views of women and sex. They are putting forth twisted views that teenage girls should have sex with them. And the Mormon girls are being " conditioned " , " brainwashed ", or " mind controlled " to accept it is normal behavior - when it's not ! It does dehumanize girls into becoming objects or things ; not people with feelings.
LISAVEGAS- That is a good point you made to your husband , " Which children do you want to send back ? The ones that have been abused or the ones that haven't ? " Good point.
BONNIE & CLYDE- That is good you are going to talk with a couple of Mormon girls. I hope you educate them. Tell them that the Mormons in Texas are just imitating what their founding father of the church initiated years ago. Perhaps you could also ask them , " Does your God encourage the sexual child abuse of minors by adult males ? " Valid question considering that it's breaking the law to do so in most all of the United States !
WARLOCK- Just because Dale Barlow denies things or the 16 year old girl denies things - doesn't mean nothing happened ! Come on. In fact - think about it - Jehovah's Witnesses guilty of sexual abuse of children deny it all the time ! The governing body as well as many elders have tried to save face publicly while lying through their teeth! This article you quoted even stated that the authorities said, " We have quite a bit of evidence that still needs to be analyzed. "
Even though you quote this article - it does not change the fact that 60 percent of the teenage girls taken from the compound are pregnant ! I'm going to keep hitting on that point ! If I was a betting man - I'd say most of those pregnancies were caused by adult male Mormon's who were between the ages of 21 to early 50's. The big question is - Do you think the teenage girls picked these men, or were the girls forced to go along with these men ? Don't you think in such a walled up freaky compound like this place they could easily hide what they are doing on the inside ? Of course they could !
IN RAINBOWS- I agree with you. This is a human rights issue versus a religious right issue. And human rights should always win. When religions cross over the line is when they take away children's freedom and rights to be children ! It is very wrong ! These Mormon kids are getting a warped view of what sex should be - between a man and a woman. They are in danger from their own parents sick, skewed beliefs ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
Mr. flipper,
I respect your point of view on this issue, however, if I can call the authorities, make an accusation against you, disrupt your life and lifestyle, as they come after you like gangbusters, AND my call to the authorites was a hoax, for whatever reason is in my demented mind, that is okay with YOU?
Warlock
...she was 14 and in the 8th grade. Her boyfriend was at least 10 years younger and she went on to have a few more kids with him.
The boyfriend was 4 years old???
Warlock - You cannot for one moment be serious about standing up for these perverted men?!
We saw these young girls and women with our own eyes and are aware of the polygamous ways of the off shoot mormon cults.
Why would you listen to their pleas of persecution?
It should be legal for the law to 'persecute' pedophile and all perverts to keep them in check and protect the innocent.
As always in sex crime cases, no one wants to believe the victims and too many spring to the defense of the perpetrators of such crimes.
But victims have rights too ...... even if they are 'just' women or little girls.
WARLOCK- I don't believe you are getting the point I'm trying to make. Whether the call by the 16 year old girl in her particular instance was a hoax or not - the fact remains that the real truth of what was found out after that remains to be true. There are 60 percent of the 14 to 17 year old girls who are pregnant in the enclosed compound ! Did it happen by osmosis ? I think not ! They HAD to be impregnated by the adult Mormon males in the compound . 21 to 50 year olds ! Which is contributing to the delinquency of these minor girls. Believe me , if you know me well enough - I have stood up on behalf of people on the board who are falsely accused . I feel very strongly about false accusations !
If in time ALL of the accusations against these Mormons in Texas prove to be false - then I will make a retraction . But the majority of the evidence is very damning to them, it's obvious evidence, not conjecture.
GERARD- I think Sammies wife meant 10 years older ! LOL! I saw that too and was thinking, that would break the Guiness book of records for earliest fathering of a child ! LOL! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
GILL- It is legal in the United States for the law and authorities to " persecute pedophiles and all perverts to keep them in check and protect the innocent ". In the United States - it's called a prison sentence for felony child abuse ! And if convicted these perverts have gotten up to 50 years to life in prison for multiple offenses at times. And in the prison systems of the United States - child molesters are considered by the prisoners themselves to be the worst of criminals. Then - in prison big burly men love to give a proper welcoming to these perverts by making them their very own sex slaves. I think that is a very appropriate discipline, don't you ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper
