Good stuff, LayingLow! Well said.
Criticism worthy of your time
Oh my God!! WT Wizard actually said "Watchtower!!"
Johnny you will find the same kool-aid the Watchtower wants you to drink is the same this board does (the same Kool-Aid your job does), it's just a different flavor. I agree with him, a lot of the people on this board bring up some pretty petty crap that happens in life, and then tries to make it some unique thing with the Watchtower. I mean hey I dislike the org as much as the next person, but we do get pretty ridiculous on here, especially if someone makes a critique of the board.
As proof half of you guys attacked this man for no reason what so ever. His posts seemed intelligent and sincere. Had he immediately had some juicy story about how he was raped by the WTS you guys would have been suckling at his tit (I admit I am just as guilty). Jesus Christ give the guy a freaking break.
I mean hey I dislike the org as much as the next person, but we do get pretty ridiculous on here, especially if someone makes a critique of the board.
I agree with BurgerTime on this one. Recently, I read over a thread, and I don't remember which one now, where somebody here said that they wished that the same thing that happened in 9/11 would've happened to them. I found it, by far, pretty disgusting, and an unnecessary comment whether you have suffered within the Org. or not. There is no need for feeling that bitter, it only makes us look bad. Whatever reasons we might have for not being part of the Org. anymore, the only way we can go on with our lives is by demonstrating the contrary.
I feel that most of our reasons are legitimate and we just found a place to let our feelings out in the open. I also agree with the person who started this thread. There is nothing better out there. All religions are the same, some worst than others. But they all have one thing in common: it is a system where it is very easy to be able to control the minds of others, and where everybody should act and think the same way. That's what makes every religion different. Each has its own way to "control" the masses. Scientology - Controls the crowds by having their own jargon, and believing that we shouldn't seek medical help. Adventists - Keep the sabbath and Adventists insist that, as a matter of discipline (not doctrine), one must not eat meats considered unclean under the Mosaic Law (many endorse total vegetarianism), and one must avoid "worldly entertainments" (card-playing, dancing, smoking, drinking, reading non-religious books, listening to non-religious music, watching non-religious television, going to the movies, etc.). SOUNDS FAMILIAR? Etc., you all get the point.
So, I've just resorted to look for that spiritual connection, whatever that might be, because even being brought up as a JW I never found it. If I never do, then it's just not in me. If I ever decide to join the "ranks" again, it will be in my own terms and the bible's, not men.
The beliefs many of you held as sacred, and worthy of spending countless hours spreading to other people, are now the focus of your malcontent. Now, you spend a lot of time working against the very thing you once promoted.
Never held any beliefs sacred, didn't spend countless hours spreading anything to anyone. I had this religion shoved down my throat from birth to age 18 against my will. I do hate the JW's but I've always hated it! So why are you here?
As I read posts throughout this site, I became amazed at some of the criticism people have actually spent time creating, reading (as I did), and responding to. Don’t get me wrong, some of what I read are good issues that seem worthy (to me) of discussion, but to be honest, I find that 90% of the posts are based on ridiculous petty topics that are obviously tied to a sense of deep hatred of the WTBTS. I can appreciate that some of the people who leave such post, and have this hatred, are taking their time to discuss such things as part of a therapeutic process to combat the fact they spent a large portion of their life dedicated to an organization they feel abandoned them at some point. Perhaps when it was felt they needed this organization the most. Others have another reason, but the fact remains the basis for some of these posts reflect a deep sense abhorrence to anything bearing the name Watchtower. The beliefs many of you held as sacred, and worthy of spending countless hours spreading to other people, are now the focus of your malcontent. Now, you spend a lot of time working against the very thing you once promoted. The very thing you thought you would never do. The very thing you spoke out against. The very thing you detested. Go ahead – ease your pain. John-Paul
Your point would be? People generally feel a great deal of disgust, guilt, anger, mistrust, etc. over something they held sacred in their lives, but they found later to be a bastion of deceit. Do you blame anyone?
An analogy: All the kids in the Jim Jones cult, those that lived, are shocked that what they so dearly clung to as being the "truth" was merely a pathway to destruction. They believed, then, in what was happening. Why? Because they were "immersed" and indoctrinated, to believe that way. Then their parents and family are gone, and it hits them like a lead balloon.
Of COURSE they feel a deep abbhorrence toward anything "watchtower." It has taken many of their lives, their families lives, blood guilt, pedophilia, the whole she-bang. Do you expect this group of harmed people to come out of this undamaged? You must be one cold-hearted beast to expect that anyone would emerge from this cult unscathed; and then not give them enough human compassion to honor and respect their feelings. Good riddance to you.
The best thing about this board is that you will encounter just about every opinion and viewpoint. After a lifetime of having to be be "fitly united" and having to ask oneself "What do the Society say about this?" - you cannot believe how refreshing that is. Of course some posts appear trite or wacky - but hey! this is the inter net . If you want a moderate discussion try the K H, or a church group over a cup of tea.
I think this board is very helpful for those that find it. I wish it was advertised on huge billboards so that others that feel the way we do could voice their opinions also. This board is full of useful information. Some views are extreme but so what, thats what makes the world.
Deep hatred for something often leads to irrational behavior, and unwillingness to consider alternative viewpoints. It can have the same blinding effect you claim the Watchtower places upon its members, making the criticism thereof hypocritical. Who would I consider more reasonable - a Islamic radical or Catholic crusader? In discussing a subject matter, like…uh, say “Who should control Jerusalem?”... how could I take seriously either one to give me a fair, balanced viewpoint? My point to this posting was simply state that many discussions are based upon frivolous statements coming from an extremist point of view. Obviously, everyone has a right to participate in such – as I do in pointing it out. I realize I might sound arrogant in expressing my feelings on the matter, but to give you some of my background: I am a 32 year old architect living in the Northwest. I was raised in the “truth” from very dedicated JW parents, and married a dedicated wife (full-time pioneer). I stopped being an active JW about 8 years ago, and I go to a meeting every 4 months or so. About 2 years ago I started an active search for “God”, only to be very disappointed in what I found out there, and have been disillusioned with certain realizations I had about the subject matter altogether. I’ve since been looking all over for information, and truthfully have been considering going back to being a JW (though have not acted upon it) based on not finding anything better out there. My wife is now pregnant, and this has hastened my desire to settle upon something. My visit to this site was based upon my deep inner desire to find a “smoking gun” on why I shouldn’t be a JW – yet most of what I have read so far seems to be rantings of an extreme position. It would be nice if there were some threads of discussion based upon serious matters, with reasonable views….understanding that “reasonable” is a relative term.
Why do you have to FIND anything Johnny? Why not just let it come to you? There are many threads here that are rational: based on science, and history, and archaeological evidence that would convince even the most devout JW that the doctrines are not the truth. The Bible says that any utterance that does not come true indicates a false prophet. They've made many utterances that have never come true. The Bible says that is the test of the truth. What more do you need? THAT is the test of a false prophet. That is what Jesus told his disciples. Anything else is anecdotal.
Test it for yourself. You can go back to being a JW, and I wish the best for you if you do, but most likely you will be more miserable than if you were living YOUR truth; what YOU believe. You can go back to the stink that is the vomit of the Watchtower Society. Something drove you here, and you are challenging here. Why? If you are self-sufficient in your knowledge that this IS the Truth, stay with it! Don't bother us lowly heathens that know no better. The Bible says that we are to be constantly examining our faith to make sure that it is the Truth.
If this JW doctrine is YOUR TRUTH, why do you feel the need to bother the rest of us with it? Lots of us have been treated badly by the JW's and we have come to realize that by their fruits we "do NOT know them." You can't stand there and walk in the shoes of all these people and say it didn't happen. You can only judge on what you know to be true. You don't know the hearts and minds of thousands of people that have been abused, disenfranchised, and treated badly by this Cult. You cannot presume to know that, or presuem to know what it feels like.
Sure, I hate what happened to me because of it, but this board has helped me heal; and if I had to vent, or get brought down a few notches, I had to. That was my path.
Good luck on your path. I have a feeling you know the truth; and the truth will set you free.
I appreciate some of your comments. It becomes easy to differentiate the balanced viewpoints from the “radical” one…and I am not talking about only those who have somewhat agreed with me. I appreciate some of the posts from people who don’t agree with me, yet didn’t resort to some sort of quip intended on downgrading me. To the people who have raised the issue – “that isn’t me”, I can only say that I am speaking to the majority, and there are always “exceptions to the rule”. I hope to start other posts to consider specific matters. Maybe this will bring out the best sort of discussions.