Athiests please answer these questions

by Mrs Smith 67 Replies latest jw friends

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy

    Hello Layla,

    Why do atheists continually deny they have any belief at all?

    Not believing something is really and truly different from positive belief. I like to use the example of unicorns, which most people don't believe in, even though they're not very extravagant as mythical creatures go. After all, they're just horses with horns. They certainly seem possible.

    Still, if pressed, most of us would say we don't believe in unicorns. This is different from declaring that unicorns definitely do not exist, which would be a groundless belief. We simply don't believe in them because there isn't any good evidence that they exist, children's coloring books aside.

    Perhaps you are referring to atheists who positively declare that there are definitely no gods. I would agree with you that this is a belief because it is a postive statement about the universe, for which there is no evidence. (The only way you could definitively rule out gods would be total knowledge of the universe, which no one has.)

    However, there really aren't many atheists who make that kind of claim because atheists tend to be sensitive to logic and see that that would be a faulty position. Even "rabid" atheists such as Dawkins are careful to say when pressed that while they feel very confident that there are no gods, it is not possible to rule them out completely. This is analogous to you or I being "very confident" that unicons do not exist, even though we can't say with 100% certainty.

    But that is the nature of knowledge in general. We can be very, very doubtful of the existence of unicorns, but it is always possible that there is a secret underground lair leading to a paradise world in Middle Earth where the unicorns run free. It is possible that the universe was created by a flying spaghetti monster. But in the absense of evidence, we can freely dismiss such claims.

    The same is true of the god proposition. Anything is possible, of course, but in the absense of evidence, there is no reason to accept any particular claim. Atheists are a-theists in the same way that they are a-unicornists or a-Elvis-is-still-alive-ists. The only reason there is a name for the position at all is because so many people do believe in gods. Imagine a world filled with unicorn-believers, in which only a minority refrained from belief until such time as evidence might be presented. Do those people have a belief in the same way that the unicorn people have belief?

    Isn't believing that everything has a logical natural explanation a belief?

    You're right about this one. But this is a fundamental assumption that all of us apply to every single ordinary event in life. When you find a broken dish, you assume that there was a sequence of events leading to its getting broken. We just don't seem to live in a world in which things happen magically, without rhyme or reason, and indeed it is difficult to conceive of such a world even working. But you're right, it is a basic assumption that we must make. So far, the universe seems to support this notion, but we can never know for certain.

    Actually, this assumption does not really bear on the question of gods. After all, gods could certainly exist in either kind of universe (that is, rational and irrational universes). It's just that in a universe where 2 + 2 only sometimes equals 4, it would be even harder to know anything at all, let alone whether gods exist.

    Anyway, hope that wasn't too rambling of a post.

    SNG

  • Galileo
    Galileo
    Why do atheists continually deny they have any belief at all?

    Atheists have no belief in God. I guess a more accurate statement is that atheism is not a belief system, the way a specific religion is. Saying you are an atheist tells a person nothing about where you may stand on abortion, the death penalty, sexual issues, etc. If you tell me your a southern baptist or a muslem, I know where you stand on all those issues. It is simply a lack of belief in one thing. We certainly believe in other things. I hope someday the term atheist will be unneccesary, the way we don't need a term to say we don't believe in fairies, unicorns, mermaids, etc. I don't believe I will see that in my lifetime, but I believe (hope) the day is coming.

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC
    Perhaps you are referring to atheists who positively declare that there are definitely no gods.

    SNG,

    Would it not be better to define them as anti-theist? Their perception is the same as that of a believer in god, just at the opposite end of the spectrum.

    An atheist is just a non-believer in the sense of the unicorn example you gave. Atheism is logical, rational, coherent. God belief and Anti-theism are not.

  • Layla33
    Layla33

    What I am seeing is that atheism means different things to different people, the same way I have met Christians and their interpretations are different. Even those that say, they believe there is a God, and that there is a Jesus, but have different ideas on the death penalty, sexual issues, abortion. I guess my personal observation is that people interpret their belief system very differently and that we can't just go by a title they declare and define it solely on that.

    Again, very interesting discussion, and enjoyable.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    I have some Buddhist friends and they don't believe in god the way Christians do. Most of them don't believe in god at all. A Vietnamese Buddhist I know, does believe in god.

    I don't try to convince them because I don't care if they believe in god or not. Let people believe what they want to believe.

    Another thing, the Buddhists I know either don't live in this country, or they are not people I discuss religion with at all. The Vietnamese girl is the girl who does my nails. So, it's who I talk to.................most are atheists or Christians, or undecided.

  • Galileo
    Galileo
    What I am seeing is that atheism means different things to different people

    Well, there are different types of atheism, there is a spectrum. But it is just differences in degrees. You aren't likely to find someone that calls themself an atheist that goes on to say they also believe in a god. That person would best be describd by another title: Crazy.

    Even those that say, they believe there is a God, and that there is a Jesus, but have different ideas on the death penalty, sexual issues, abortion.

    That's why I specifically said "Southern Baptist", not "Christian". There are varying degrees of Christianity, but they are all part of a belief system. If someone is a Christian that thinks there's nothing wrong with homosexuality, they are choosing to pretend their holy book wasn't serious when it said homosexuals will be destroyed by god. There is no such system of beliefs for an atheist to need to circumvent. That's why we are so insistent atheism isn't a belief or a belief system, it's a non-belief.

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy

    IP_SEC,

    Nice to see you!

    Would it not be better to define them as anti-theist? Their perception is the same as that of a believer in god, just at the opposite end of the spectrum.

    That might be a good designation. And for the record, Layla, I know a lot of atheists, but I have very rarely met anyone who fits this description. It's simply an irrational position. Of course, there are irrational people in all quarters, so there will be a few. But they certainly are not representative for a group based purely on the demand for evidence as a prerequisite for accepting something.

    SNG

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    SNG - good to hear from you. Have you read the God Delusion yet? I assume you have. Dawkins is my God - so I am a theist

  • Galileo
    Galileo
    good to hear from you. Have you read the God Delusion yet? I assume you have. Dawkins is my God - so I am a theist

    Ha! I love it! God bless Richard Dawkins! The God Delusion is an awesome book. So is Sam Harris' "The End of Faith". Must reads, both of them.

  • Galileo
    Galileo
    That might be a good designation. And for the record, Layla, I know a lot of atheists, but I have very rarely met anyone who fits this description. It's simply an irrational position.

    Ditto. This is a point I try to make as often as I can, because it's such a broad misconception. Save perhaps for a few nutjobs, atheists do not believe they have absolute proof that there is no god. Period. That is not what the word means.

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