Why did Death not stop as soon as the RANSOM was paid?

by jwfacts 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • TopHat

    Jim-TX, When Lazarus died the first time, Jesus had not paid the debt as yet...

  • Spook

    This is part of the foolishness of theodicy for christians that people like Jcannon don't seem to get.

    In christian stories and legends people generally die because of several reasons:

    1. They were created mortal and temporal and this world is just for getting to the next through testing by being made sick and being ordered to be well.

    2. They were created perfect and became imperfect of their own will, resulting in decendants being imperfect either through genetic or spiritual inheritance.

    So to be very brief, the only reaosns people would still die in this fairy tail would be that

    1. In case one above the ransom has nothing to do with physical life and death to begin with.

    2. In case two God has chosen not to undo the genetic consequences or change his spiritual outlook for his own higher purpose.

    If you can believe that, you can believe anything.

  • zack

    The whole thing is just a story, isn't it? The evidence I have seen suggests that to me. So sad.

  • WTWizard

    Because the whole thing was God's having created problems where none needed to exist. The first human pair sinned, by wanting the freedom to think for themselves (which I can find absolutely nothing wrong with it). Instead of being given total freedom, Baghead God acted to keep them from developing the technologies to live forever anyways. And He condemned them to die for no reason other than because they wanted to use their brains.

    Now, Jehovah needed to create a long payment plan. Of course, not only would Jesus have to die, but all humans would need to offer additional sacrifice to foreshadow it. Following it, people would need to show appreciation by adding to "the perfect sacrifice, to which nothing need be added". Their ability to experience pleasure would thus be subdued. More sacrifice of value to some undeserving higher cause. More value destruction.

    This is enough to make me stick with Satan. At least he does not demand sacrifice of value.

  • FlyingHighNow
    Ancient Jewish writings are not something to base your LIFE on. Bye!

    I don't base my life on them, but his example is a good one to follow. I mean specifically in his loving people and not valuing the wrong things.

    Just like many revere Dr. Martin Luther King and Gandhi today, people revered Jesus when he lived. And I would like to think that in the future generations these men will still be beloved and emulated.

    I was watching a show on the Discovery Channel recently. It was on Easter as a matter of fact. Archaologists have dug up the remains of Capernium. They have found Simon Peter's home. This was a secular show. They used a computer model to show what the town of 1500 looked like when Jesus and his apostles lived there. They showed Simon Peter's home and showed that Jesus would have lived on the same courtyard. They also dug up a fishing boat where the sea had receded, like one the disciples would have used. ----------Very humble life for Jesus and his followers. No palaces and elite buddies for Jesus.

    In life we follow all kinds of examples in various people. The sad thing is, that a lot of people, especially former JW's, confuse organized religion with Jesus the man. They credit Jesus the man with all kinds of things they should be blaming on organized religion. And furthermore, there is bad in organized religion, very true, but there is also a lot of good to be found. Granted some religions and churches have much more bad than good, but the opposite is also true in many cases.

  • FlyingHighNow

    A very interesting question - one that makes my mind boggle.

    But I must say that I share FHN's perspective on God and his love. You put that beautifully.

    Thank you. My parents did religion right, despite glaring mistakes in other aspects of parenting. If you don't use fear in religion and you don't tamper with a child's pure view of God, the child is likely never going to dream up the horrors or hell or Armegeddon on his/her own. How sad that anyone would use God to scare children or adults. Love is a much better motivator than fear with normal people.

  • Jim_TX
    "TopHat - When Lazarus died the first time, Jesus had not paid the debt as yet..."

    So - Jesus was no better than a magician - or Wizard. His 'miracles' were flawed.

    Any 'miracles' that Jesus performed were merely parlour acts used to impress the audience.


    Jim TX

  • FlyingHighNow

    Any 'miracles' that Jesus performed were merely parlour acts used to impress the audience.


    Houdini never resurrected the dead or fed hundreds of people from a few fishes and loaves. I doubt that 2000 years from now that millions of people will still be speaking of Houdini's parlor acts.

    What does it matter if you or anyone else thinks his miracles were flawed? It was the motivation for his acts that is of the importance. He loved people. Love was his motivation. If he was trying to find fame, he would not have lived the humble life he did. And he lived humbly by purpose.

  • LayingLow

    I think the following link is worth checking out. Eastern Orthodoxy has a very different view of Jesus death. They will also point out some of the logical results of assuming that God's sense of justice was offended, etc...

    The link is:
    http://oodegr.com/english/swthria/antil1.htm (The Problem with the Juridical Position)
    http://oodegr.com/english/swthria/swthria.htm (Salvation Issues Title Menu)

  • amused

    Wouldn't it have been more loving on God's part had he brought the end immediately after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE?

    There would have been a core of Christians to start the new world order, they would have been primitive in there needs and more suited to starting over at that time and Jah would have had far fewer wicked to execute.

    It does not matter if we would not have been born, thus no opportunity to be saved, as we would not have known it anyway.

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