Interesting Banter on the Watchtower Comments Page

by V 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • V

    Thought I would share this chat with you from the Watchtower Comments Channel.

    Message from biblestudentSteve:

    Nice voice. Nice production. But in reality, just the same fault-finding drivel that's been going on for 100 years.

    I speak from the perspective of having read dozens of anti-JW books and also being trained secularly in high-end persuasion techniques.

    Ultimately, Jesus' true disciples would be preaching "the kingdom". Your ministry is simply trying to create FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) in the minds of unsuspecting JW's.

    Nice production value though. Very slick. But, just the same old stuff in a new package.

    Response from WT Comments:

    You observation is correct. Watchtower Comments is an informative DE-contruction of JW beliefs. WTC does not endorse any particular religion or alternative belief. We simply aim to disentangle the mind control knots that tie many JWs.

    If we use the "same old stuff" it is because the information is valid and accurate. We are proud to say that the presentation of the information is much superior to the other "fault-finding drivel" you may have experienced.

    Most documentaries about Nazi Germany cover the same old stuff as well. Perhaps there is a reason...

    Reply from biblestudentSteve:

    >If we use the "same old stuff" it is because the information is valid and accurate.

    Your above statement is an example of the "because frame" that is used in professional persuasion. (you can read up on this by studying NLP)

    It's used to trick people into believing there is a "causal" relationship between the 2 phrases.

    Phrase A "because" Phrase B

    When in reality there is no causal relationship between the two.

    The fact that you are using the "same old stuff" (Phrase A)... doesn't prove it is "valid and accurate" (Phrase B).

    The use of the word "because" creates an implied causal relationship where there is none.

    Sorry, not tricky enough.

    Perhaps Christ will be impressed with your "ministry" to dig through WT articles to find fault.

    On the other hand, maybe he wanted true Christians focus their "ministry" on preaching the kingdom to others.

    But, that's between him and you. Perhaps you should really spend sometime thinking about which of the two "ministries" Christ did himself... and the Apostles too.

    Until then... nice voice, slick production, but the same old fault-finding that's been going on for a hundred years.

    Response from WT Comments:

    Ahh, a wit!

    Very good then. Since you assail my logic, please do not disgard the use of "the same old stuff." You say:

    "The fact that you are using the 'same old stuff' (Phrase A)... doesn't prove it is 'valid and accurate' (Phrase B)."

    Perhaps you should focus on proving Phrase A as in-accurate before disregarding my casual relationships. I would enjoy a substantive debate instead of your sophmoric introduction to fallacies.

    Your attempt to foist the term "ministry" on my work, is also misleading. Again this is mental deconstruction, not a crusade.

    Reply from biblestudentSteve:

    No interest in spending time debating with you.

    Having read literally dozens of anti-JW books myself("same old stuff"), I have a very well-informed opinion you're heading down the wrong road, focussed on the wrong thing, looking for faults in those who are doing the best they can to live by Bible standards, and teach others about God's Kingdom.

    Perhaps you're looking forward to hearing "well done good slave, you spent much time nit-picking words and phrases out of the Watchtower magazine, trying to create doubt in the minds of JW's...", but then again...

    Jesus set the example in focussing on teaching others about the Kingdom. Since he focussed his time on that, so will I.

    I just can't seem to find any reference to him regularly dissecting and trashing the words and phrases of those he disagreed with. Even the Apostle Paul used a different method then you.

    Maybe there's a lesson in that?

    A person tends to become what he focusses on... what happened to the Bible characters who regularly focussed on complaining about others?

    Response from WT Comments:

    Check your Bible again my friend. Jesus and Paul did set quite an example for me. You said:

    "I just can't seem to find any reference to him regularly dissecting and trashing the words and phrases of those he disagreed with."

    Time to read the Bible again...

    Jesus: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" -Matthew 23:23

    Jesus: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" -Matthew 23:13

    Jesus: "Isaiah aptly prophesied about you hypocrites, as it is written..." -Mark 7:6

    Paul: He was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews. But these made attempts to do away with him. -Acts 9:29

    You may enjoy hiding in your bubble of inscrutinty, but be careful you don't pop it

  • Tatiana

    I think I love you, V!!!


    Any more replies to you?

  • Awakened07

    Why would he read "dozens of anti-JW books" and then have no interest in debating you? He must have spent quite some time acquainting himself with that kind of literature, and wouldn't have anything to lose by debating you, neither time (which he evidently is not against using on this matter) or faith.

    He seems to be among those who say "Well, it's an org. run by fallible men making mistakes, but Jehovah will make it right in the end". And that's OK I guess, except this particular org. says they are the only mouthpiece of God on earth today. I do not understand why God's org. today can be allowed to have countless flaws in doctrine (as this guy must know) and still be God's only channel, in a time period which - if their understanding were correct - would be just as important, if not more so, than any biblical period. And to say in the same breath that the Bible is infallible, despite having been written by fallible men.

    They often counter this by pointing to men being fallible and doing the wrong things in biblical times as well but were still chosen by God, but what those people did was one thing; what they wrote another. What they wrote is supposed to be infallible, and so there's no reason the WT's ("God's only channel") literature and doctrine shouldn't be as well. Not that I can see anyway.

  • DT

    You are doing a great job with these videos. I hope it causes more Witnesses to disobey the governing body and come on line to associate with us "apostates". Let them try to defend their organisation with silly arguments. It's a good advertisement for how mind controlled they are.

  • TD

    biblestudentSteve can't have it both ways.

    One of the principal questions regarding JW's is whether the kingdom message they preach (i.e. That Jesus returned invisibly in 1914, that God's kingdom was set up, that Jesus was crowned as king of that kingdom and is even now, preparing to judge the nations) has any connection whatsoever to the relatively simple message taught by the early Christians. (Romans 1:16)

    Without a thorough answer to that question, (e.g. A debate) it cannot simply be assumed that JW's have any favor whatsoever with God for "preaching the kingdom" because to do so would constitute the exact same type of casual relationship that biblestudentSteve claims to be above.

  • Einstein

    If witnesses did their research they would realize that Jesus' message to preach about the Kingdom was based on repentance on the basis of faith in Jesus and his sacrifice. The following scriptures verify that:

    1. Luke 5:32
      I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
      Luke 5:31-33 (in Context) Luke 5 (Whole Chapter)
    2. Luke 24:47
      and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
      Luke 24:46-48 (in Context) Luke 24 (Whole Chapter)
    3. Acts 5:31
      God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
      Acts 5:30-32 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)
    4. Acts 11:18
      When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
      Acts 11:17-19 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter)
    5. Acts 13:24
      Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel.
      Acts 13:23-25 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
    6. Acts 19:4
      Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
      Acts 19:3-5 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
    7. Acts 20:21
      I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
      Acts 20:20-22 (in Context) Acts 20 (Whole Chapter)
    8. Acts 26:20
      First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

    So they don't even know what they are preaching about. They instead have their own take on what the kingdom is and throw in the FDS for good measure. They are such dummies and to think I believed their and nonsense!

  • lovelylil

    I guess Jesus calling the Pharisees offspring of vipors, children of the Devil, hypocrites, white washed graves, blind leading the blind, and telling them they made the laws of God invalid by their teachings was not trashing them????

    Since the Watchtower is so haughty as to claim they have ALL truth, like the Pharisees, they deserve a good spanking once in a while!


    YOU ROCK!!! I love your videos and I love sharing them even more. Keep up the good work. Peace, Lilly

  • chickpea
  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Well done V. Likely though this man claims training in persuasion, he fails to detect the BS that he reads from the Watchtower. His glasses are still as tainted tinted as mine were previously. Now looking at the Watchtower is like reading a forth grade explanation of nuclear-fusion.


    Nice voice. Nice production.

    I recognise this voice, I think. Is this Deaconblue's voice?


  • BreakingAway

    BiblestudentSteve sounds like a "thirdwitness" type apologist who's assigned by the Society for the purpose of "damage control".That's why they've read "dozens of books" by "apostates" because they want to debunk them.There's also no shortage of socalled theocratic warfare nutjobs on a self proclaimed crusade to rid the world of all 'postates and to protect the Society.He no doubt fancies himself quite the intellectual but comes across as rather silly.It's rather ironic, and appropriate, that an organization that uses fear as the principle motivator is now quite fearful of the work of ex-jws that have shown them for what they clearly are.If they weren't worried, they wouldn't spend so much time trying to convince others not to listen to these things.

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