Atheist in U.S. poll 4% ------ Atheist on JWD 90 % ?

by caliber 67 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Galileo

  I agree that there is no way that this board is 90% atheist. That would put us on par with the membership of The National Academy of Sciences. Great company to be in, if it were true.

  I think that what others have said is true, that we have a higher percentage of atheists because we were forced to critically examine all religion, including and especially our own. We eventually realized how people are fooled. It is the same reason so many of the great skeptics that don't believe in supernatural forces were and are magicians. Harry Houdini, James Randi, Penn & Teller, Michael Shermer. All great skeptics, all with a background in magic. When you've seen how the box is built, you stop believing the woman was really cut in half.
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  Gopher

  The poll figure of 4% of declared atheists undercounts the actual number. Atheism has a certain stigma attached to it, still.

  However on this board, there's a good amount of anonymity, so people can openly discuss possibilities here, and more openly declare their atheism without fear of stigma.

  Also, most members of the board are now disabused of the idea that any group who claims to have "truth" really has it. Atheists look more to scientific evidence in their assessment of what is or is not factual and not to claims of a "holy" book filled with beliefs.
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  Gopher

  Double posted.
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  FlyingHighNow

  My hunch is most of the JWD atheists will not stay atheists. And that a lot of the ones who think they are atheists, they likely were raised in the org. Also, they probably would admit to being agnostic if they saw tornadoes barreling towards their houses or cars. You know? If they awake in the night to some burglar with a gun to their heads, I bet the first thing they think say is, "Oh, God." It's been said there are no athiests in foxholes.
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  FlyingHighNow

  And honestly, I never believed Jehovah was real. Not really. I couldn't pray to him. He was like this big, evil, bottomless lake of dynamic, murderous energy. Well, if this is all you've ever known and you find out that Jehovah was fake, it might take a while to get over it.

  I am very glad I was not raised in the org. I feel like the org damages raised ins who don't leave until teenhood or adulthood similarly to people raised in religious compound/cults. Like those polygamous cults they've busted. How are those women and kids ever going to see the world the way people raised with relative freedom do?
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  Gopher

  That expression "no atheists in foxholes" is so trite. There actually ARE atheists in foxholes. Look here: http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/

  I'm an atheist who admits to being agnostic, in the sense that nobody living on earth can ABSOLUTELY prove or disprove the existence of a deity that has been described or imagined by mankind. Technically because of our limitations, all humans are agnostic.

  I didn't come by my atheism quickly after leaving JW's. It was a journey of about 7 years. My atheism is rather automatic now, such that I don't dwell on it much (unless asked about it or if it comes up in conversation). I won't abandon it. If evil deeds or natural disaster come my way, that will be due either to decisions made by evil humans or due to random forces of nature. I don't disparage believers who want or need beliefs to make it through, I just won't join them in their belief -- that's all.
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  FlyingHighNow

  My atheism is rather automatic now, such that I don't dwell on it much (unless asked about it or if it comes up in conversation). I won't abandon it.

  Never say never.

  I became agnostic after my mother and grandmother watched me get so ill over a year's time that I nearly died. I was 14. They called me a hypochondriac in front of the entire family on Christmas day. I was in the hospital receiving a blood transfusion two days later. So, I was pretty mad at God. How could he let this happen after all? Pain can cause people to withdraw from the idea of God. I see that a lot on JWD. It's a natural reaction to withdraw from someone you think has hurt you. God didn't hurt you, Gopher, people did.
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  Gopher

  Sorry to hear of that painful teenage experience. No wonder you were thrown into anguish, causing you to re-examine everything.

  God didn't hurt you, Gopher, people did.

  Really, in my assessment -- God didn't hurt OR help me. He was just plain absent. I'm not angry at him, and he didn't hurt me.

  In my case atheism wasn't due to pain and withdrawal. It was my reasoned assessment (over a long period of time) of the way the world is. I've thought it through pretty carefully.
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  FlyingHighNow

  Gopher, one night you're going to wake up. And at the foot of your bed is going to be Roma Downy and Della Reese, Tess and Monica. They're going to glow with light and tell you, "Gopher, God loves you. We're angels." And then Della Reese will sing, "Walk With YOu."

  I've thought things through pretty thoroughly, too. And I must say I have never felt as close to God again after the teen experience and the JW's ruining any good ideas and feelings I had about God from childhood. But I look around me at the beauty in nature. And I look examine the love human beings feel towards each other and the grief they feel when another human they love dies. And I think, no way this happened by accident. I don't believe in a conventional God either.

  After I left the JW's, I turned to the Great Spirit of my dad's indian heritage. And last year when Andy was hurt and Mickey was taken, I couldn't turn to God for comfort easily, so I turned instead to all the native women going back through Dad and through his mother. The long dead women who had lost many of their children. I drew comfort from them. I can't explain it. It just happened. In the end it doesn't matter if you believe in God, though I think at times you will need his comfort. What matters is that he believes in you. He loves you. It doesn't matter if you get "saved." He loves all his kids. He knows it all be reconciled in the end. And for the good.
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  Gopher

  I guess we're getting a little off the track of the original post.

  However, I must say if belief works for you, that's fine. I'm pretty much "live and let live" when it comes to personal things like belief.

  That having been said, when I left the JW's I determined I was pretty much done preaching to others or being preached to. So your words about "God loves you", etc., are a minor irritant to me. I heard that kind of thing when I was with JW's, and I don't believe such things any more.

  And so I won't try to convince you of all the good reasons for atheism (even with the love and beauty we see), because I know you don't want to hear that either.