Immigration

by Princess Daisy Boo 73 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AgentSmith

  Boo, if you get an oppertunity to get out, take it! I want my family out of here as well. I can see a downward spiral coming, the power house of Africa turning into a Zimbabwe.

  I have read the replies and I am stunned at some of the comments. A visitor to any country will only see the best it has to offer, no matter where you go. The majority of South Africans, (All colors) want a safe enviroment for their family, work to sustain a reasonable standard of living. My friend, lived through the whole Apartheid system, where his family was split in two. Some were not 'white' enough and was re classified as 'Coloureds' (this is not the same as the 'Black' classification. btw)

  Suddenly, overnight almost, he was coloured, and his uncles and aunts were white. This type of thing did happen. You would think that he would have serious hang-ups. However we are friends in the true sense of the word. And if you look at my avatar you will see I am white. I can however understand that the past will not go away, it affected too many people.

  But that has become an almost lesser issue, crime is touching everyone. Think if you can name any friends or family who has been hijacked, been mugged at gun point, raped, any violent crime. I have had direct contact with a criminal coming into my house. Some of employees have been stabbed, my sister has been hi jacked twice, at gun point. Another mate was robbed in his house while he had guests, guns all over the place. Friends mom was gang raped and robbed, forced to go the bank and draw cash for them. I am not in a crime ridden area. Just your average suburb. These stories can be related by anyone you meet. Black and white and everyone in between

  A million man march against crime is being orginised, by Desmond Dube. I will march with him, no problem.

  This thread has gone a bit (maybe a lot) off track. Options to escape are ancestral visas, or Canada New Zeeland and Australia, seem keen enough to accept us. Oz and SA weather/people are very similar. Need to go to a country where you can at least speak the language and make a living.
• 

  LouBelle

  Hey Agent Smith - what part of South Africa are you in??

  What / where re: the march?

  I can sympathise with your mate - same thing happend to my family - split apart and classified under a different race group.
• 

  skeeter1

  Wow - I did not think that my lil ol post about considering immigration would turn into a 3 page arument on racism, history and whether Africa is a good or bad place to live

  I'm sorry. I am partly responsible for hijacking your thread.

  On South Africa. The posters who are currently living there summed up, what I'd describe, is a "MESS" (with all capital letters). It sounds like it's getting a lot worse than it was 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago. It sounds like if you aren't currently there in March 2008, you don't know what you are talking about. It sounds like you agree that Safaris are a super controlled environment. The real "animals" live outside the national parks.

  If I were you, I'd get out so fast that the door would not hit me in the ass. Wherever you choose to go, it is likely going to be better than where you are.

  My husband travels the world for his business. He's been to Australia (Brisbane & Melbourne) late last year. He really likes it there. He was in New Zealand 8 years ago.

  He was in Dublin, Ireland last month. He said that the place is booming. Ireland lowered its corporate tax rate to an unbeleivable 15% (or lower), and alot of businesses are moving there. If you can do headquarter type work (accounting, finance, computers), he thinks you should be able to find a job extremely easy. Check into the cost of living, though. He heard rumbles that the influx of people was making a house/apartment high.

  He is in Liverpool right now. He said it was colder than a witches's ass.

  Skeeter
• 

  Layla33

  Skeeter,

  You really truly hijacked this thread. When someone responds once to a remark that's cool, but to continually post information that is not only not totally relevant to the topic at hand, but as I mentioned before has more to do with the OCD I see that happens on forums when someone's ego is challenged, it's kind of a shame. I am sure all parties that were interested in the topic, who had different views, could have done without all the links, posts and 10 posts of nothing but three party responses.

  You gave an opinion, that I took exception to, because it was offensive and insulting to all the native Africans that live there. If you said it about India, I would feel the same. If you said it about China I would feel the same way.

  Africa is NOT a mess, I disagree with you. Accept it and move on. You haven't even been there. There are just as many valid responses about the United States of America. And what? Does that discount your little story about living in Florida??
• 

  Layla33

  Oh and my response stands, when has SOUTH AFRICA NOT BEEN A MESS?

  The majority of people that lived there were treated to the worst crimes of humanity that no human should have to endure.

  That is my point and it was my point and it will remain my point.

  The only South Africans that are speaking here are white south africans, and no one else. It would be the same if someone was discussing China. You may live in China your whole life, but don't you think a Chinese person who has lived there for generations and can trace their family back thousands of years can discuss another segment to the end of "white rule" in their country and how it affects everyone? That's my point and it is still my point.

  I really truly believe you should immigrate and that is what I said and will continue to say. I do believe that South Africa will rise again, I hope to live to see it. I would love to see the native indigeneous people empowered over their country to bring it to peace and equality for all. I would say the same thing about China when it ended white imperalism, and the Chinese people were able to take back their country and bring it to peace and equality.

  I believe that a lot of the strife, corruption and issues that South Africa is facing today, is a DIRECT RESULT of the many many many years of Apartheid and crimes against humanity. Ignoring that aspect of it, does a disservice to possible solutions.
• 

  skeeter1

  Layla, we have a difference of opinion. You see Africa as the perverbial, more than half full haven for human peace. I see it as more than half empty. Africa and South Africa in a mess, in my opinion. The poster in South Africa appear to be a very bad situation, in their own words. I responded so many times in this thread becuase you called my ideas & myself "ignorant", "stupid", and "childish." If you publicly call me these words, then I will publicly respond. If Simon or Lady Lee have a problem with me defending my views on the South African or African poitical situation on a thread that is about a person wanting to emigrate because of the high rate of crime, they can cut me off JWD. I dont' care if you don't care for my ideas. I am not here to please you, as I will not be able to...unless I say, "Africa is a haven of peace, prosperity, opportunity, overall." Skeeter
• 

  Layla33

  Layla, we have a difference of opinion. You see Africa as the perverbial, more than half full haven for human peace. I see it as more than half empty. Africa and South Africa in a mess, in my opinion. The poster in South Africa appear to be a very bad situation, in their own words. I responded so many times in this thread becuase you called my ideas & myself "ignorant", "stupid", and "childish." If you publicly call me these words, then I will publicly respond. If Simon or Lady Lee have a problem with me defending my views on the South African or African poitical situation on a thread that is about a person wanting to emigrate because of the high rate of crime, they can cut me off JWD. I dont' care if you don't care for my ideas. I am not here to please you, as I will not be able to...unless I say, "Africa is a haven of peace, prosperity, opportunity, overall." Skeeter

  Well then stop making it about me. You have never been there, do you even know any South Africans in person? I have spent a good deal of time in Africa and South Africa, I was not just there for one week or two, I was there for a lot longer, I was able to do so through my now ex - husband. His cousin is married to a South African woman, we stayed with them, more than once. It was not some "holiday" or short trip and when you have family that lives there, they show you all the ins and outs. There were places in South Africa that I was appalled to see. I think a lot of your perspective is ignorant because you are missing the point and we are sitting here debating over nothing. If you were a centered mature person, the first time we agreed to disagree that would have been the end of it. But no, again, the ego and other OCD qualities are kind of weird to read, but considering that a lot of former JW's and those still in it are engrained that they need to have the last word and make their point, I am not surprised, just taken aback by it.

  And my point is you really didn't read my remarks at all, did you? Never did I once say that South Africa wasn't full of corruption, read back, and see exactly what I wrote. However, you made a sweeping generalization on the entire continent, a continent you have never set foot to live. I responded initially to that because that's silly to me because there are a lot of nice places to live, where people would never imagine leaving and would totally disgusted and insulted by some American sitting on an internet pronouncing about their lives - I know plenty of these people and I spoke not just for my own personal opinion but the many African friends and former family that I have. Is there no wonder that a lot of the rest of the world considers Americans to be the most self-centered, ignorant, ethnocentric bigots on the planet. And get this, when they actually surveyed happiness in the world, guess where a lot of the world's happiest people lived? Right there in Africa and guess where some of the most angry, depressed, unhappy lived? Right here in the US.

  So understand that I don't care if you agree or not, but to perserve the topic, don't make it personal about your ego or anything else. We all have different perspectives, if you are an adult, act like one and don't make it petty and out of line. I absolutely hate when people do that online, it is so unnecessary. So for the last time, agree to disagree and move on. If you have anything to say to me directly, stop polluting the topic and make the PM your friend. Otherwise, stop making it about me, since you proclaim you don't care what I think. You rconstant references to me show otherwise and it is way over the context of this thread. Are we clear?
• 

  skeeter1

  Ego? Who is calling who the names..and who is labeling who? You have called me and my ideas all sorts of names, now comparing me to an immature, American bigot! You insinuate that I am not acting like an adult (i.e. I'm acting like a child) in your public writings. Yet, you want me to privately p.m you. If you continue insult me publicly, then I will defend myself publicly.

  I am not an immature, American bigot. My family is from Brazil, and I know what it's like in a third world country.

  The first poster was concerned about her safety. The posters in South Africa talk about the current situation the best. I posted a few news articles on South Africa, one from the United Nations. I think they report the situation in an unbiased way.. I stand by their words on the situation.

  The first poster is concerned about her family. I could not imagine looking into my child's eyes and saying, "I'm sorry you were raped at school today. It's the hundreds of years of racial oppression that has caused this current violence. But, South Africa will turn around. We'll just have to live through this chaos. And, we'll get you the drugs so your HIV doesn't turn into AIDS."

  I also stand by the United States' travel advisories and warnings for the various African countries. (Just as I stand behind the travel warning to Rio,where my good friend who is a native was mugged & held at gunpoint for 5 days, gang raped, etc).

  You posted that Africa is not a mess. You posted that Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan, etc. were places you'd like to live. At this point, I'm willing to buy you a plane ticket to those places. May you live in peace there.

  Skeeter
• 

  LouBelle

  Frankly you both went off topic - this was about immigration because of crime & corruption and had nothing to do with race/travel/extended stays. Yes there has always been crime and corruption but it's really really is out of hand.
• 

  Layla33

  Ego? Who is calling who the names..and who is labeling who? You have called me and my ideas all sorts of names, now comparing me to an immature, American bigot!

  The first poster was concerned about her safety. The posters in South Africa talk about the current situation the best. I posted a few news articles on South Africa, one from the United Nations. I think they report the situation in an unbiased way.. I stand by their words on the situation.

  The first poster is concerned about her family. I could not imagine telling my son or daughter, "I'm sorry you were raped at school today. It's the hundreds of years of racial oppression that has caused this current violence. But, South Africa will turn around. You'll just have to live through this chaos. And, we'll get you the drugs so your HIV doesn't turn into AIDS."

  I also stand by the United States' travel advisories and warnings. You posted that Africa is not a mess. You posted that Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan, etc. were places you'd like to live. At this point, I'm willing to buy you a plane ticket to those places. Live in peace.

  Skeeter

  Well let's clear this up then because obvious you have an issue here. I never called YOU anything, I do not know you, I have no idea who you are. I spoke about your pronouncements in topics and my opinion on such. Never wast it personal, not once. You brought up all kinds of things in your response to me that had absolutely nothing to do with my ONE response to you. Again, read what I wrote, I went out of my way to say, I am not trying to offend you and I was pretty respectful and direct in my criticism, but it was not personal. I am shocked to read this.

  When this forum started, I responded that if the poster is concerned about her family she should move. Read it, you obviously didn't.

  As far as people connected to a land staying and fiighting, that's a personal choice, Native Americans stayed and fighted for their land for many reasons, I respect that. Asians would say and fight for their land because they are connected to it. It does not diminish what may currently happening in their country.

  You know I have a right to think whatever I like about any country in Africa. Where I would live and where I could possibly live is COMPLETELY out of the context of this discussion, this is where you are irrational and out of line. Reading that convinces me that something is not quite right about you. Buying me a ticket so I can live in peace?! I am peace now and I am peace wherever I go because I carry peace with me, I am not out looking for it. Nothing you said has any relevence to this topic. Again, I am not sure what is going on with you, but please do not infer your irrational ideas onto me. This is simply a topic with a difference of opinion, no one needs to buy a plane ticke to live anywhere. My goodness.