Immigration

by Princess Daisy Boo 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    well balanced skeeter...

    A piece from Cathy Buckles writing on events in Zimbabwe..

    Saturday 2nd February 2008

    Dear Family and Friends,
    What is happening in Kenya is making us very nervous here in Zimbabwe. A disputed election result; over 800 people killed; 250 thousand displaced and a stable and prosperous country spiralling into chaos in just a single month. As the violence and killing has gone on day after day, it soon become obvious that this wasn't just about a questionable election result, but about a number of past disputes and old grievances that had never been resolved. Its also about poverty, unemployment and inequality - all factors that are predominant in Zimbabwe's chronic situation.

    Everyone is asking if what's happened in Kenya could be us in two months time and as fast as we shake our heads and say, no, that won't happen here - its hard to find reasons why not.

    For eight years we've been a country in deep turmoil. Opposition MP David Coltart wrote recently that of the 39 parliamentary election challenges brought after the June 2000 elections, not one had been concluded by the courts at the end of that term in 2005. He went on to say that the 2002 legal challenge to Robert Mugabe's election as President was also nowhere close to being concluded - and this term ends in just two months time in March 2008.

    The election challenges are just the beginning. To this day the perpetrators of hundreds of cases of rape, murder, abduction, arson and torture - all committed in the name of political violence since 2000 - have yet to be brought to justice for their crimes.

    Aside from the court challenges, political violence and oppressive legislation, it is the day to day things that have bought most people to the end of their tether. Everyone has had enough of living like this: no food in the shops; negligible production from all those thousands of farms grabbed by the State; electricity and water cuts that go on for days at a time, or worse; not being able to get drugs when we are sick; not being able to afford to send children to school; not even being able to get our own money out of the bank. In urban areas we are fed up with municipalities who take our
  • Layla33
    Layla33
    I have the right to comment on any place, subject, or idea I wish. And, i put where it I got the information that built my perception, just as you had. So, let each person judge whether or not our ideas have merit. Is reading books or a trip as a tourist a better perception as to what it's like to live in Africa.

    Excuse me, but I never did say you don't have the right, but you are relating your opinion on a place you have never been, that has no merit to me. I have been to South Africa, twice, one time I spent over a month there with my ex husband distant relatives and friends. I don't think you and I can even have a debate on this, it's silly and pointless. I don't think you know what you are talking about and I would feel the same way if it was India or South America or anywhere else. Anyone can open up one book and write a summation, which is what you have done. But to me, your ignorance is apparent on many levels. I was being nice before and I am being nice now. Don't talk like an authority when you are anything but that. Don't like it. Sorry, that's the real world.

    For the person who is wanting to move....who got it more right? Layla or Skeeter? Is it a great place to live or not? Is it "safe", have economic potential, a place to raise children, good public schools, good emergency medicine, etc? Do you live in Johannasburg or Cape Town? There's a difference between those two towns.

    Again, doing my best not to be rude here, but what are you talking about? No one is denying there is a difference between those two towns, like there is a difference between South Los Angeles and San Francisco, the point is that they are still in the United States.

    And Layla, what do you think of the "cure" alot of Africans have for Aids? It's raping a virgin, a toddler, or infant (as in the case of South Africa where our poster wants to leave). Did they discuss this on the safari tour?http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/april/virgin.htm

    The majority of black men in South Africa are NOT raping toddlers. Just like the majority of white men in the US are not in the KKK or Aryan Nation or living in a double wide. However, some do it, your point is what exactly?

    If you are sugggesting I do not like black people, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. If you read "Africa: 50 years of Independence", you would see who the author blames alot of the troubles on. It's not the bare assed black man or the poor black woman that lives in the shanty town. It's those who are in power & the European and United States who keeps those in power. We tolerate assholes at the top of government, to oppress the black African and to fill the leader's pesonal bank accounts in Switzerland. It's those in power who are to blame. There is no "deep seated hatred" of black people, white people, green people, etc. But, I do have contempt for corrupt people in power & for radical, religous freaks who want to blow people up.

    I have no idea where you are coming from saying I am suggesting you don't like black people. Again, do a deep analysis of yourself. My remarks were very simple to you and direct. You have never been to Africa, you haven't even set foot on the soil, I said nothing about anything else. Stay on point. I have not only read what you are referring to, but discussed it at length in discussion groups. Here and on the continent. That's the difference between you and I. I don't have a passing interest in African politics, I have studied it, been there, married to someone who lived there for the majority of their life, there's a difference, and before you go asserting my beliefs on anything. Ask the questions and don't assume. Otherwise you look more ignorant than you already appear to be.

    But, African has blacks, whites, Europeans, Indians, etc. It's no longer 100% black. We are like dogs, fighting over who owns the flea.

    Yes, just like India has people in in that are not Indian, China has people in it that are not Chinese, but the majority of these places, Africa included are native Indigenous people. The issue is how do they get along for the betterment of the future of those countries. Whites (same as Europeans), Indians, and other groups like Asians have to get along in their host country. If that doesn't happen, like it has happened everywhere in the world there will be clashes. Same thing is happening in European countries with other groups that may have migrated there, but still have to respect their hosts culture and country.

    That being said, I do not think Robert Modave has any right to murder & slaughter white farmers who own their land. Here are the lucky ones who left with their life. Zimbabwea has no food, but now Zimbea and Nigeria do. Knowledge.

    I agree. Just like I don't agree that the white government who went in and illegally took the land from the black farmers and workers either. Neither one of these are right, but before you go blaming one, look at where this barbarity started in the first place. Until you ask why, you are no where.

  • Layla33
    Layla33
    Whites killing and raping? Is it the whites that are raping 2 year old children now to cure AIDS? Why not go live there, it is a product of liberal thinking, like so many countries going to hell in a handbasket.

    Africa is a messed up place, it is a beautiful place with many natural resources but the people over there just cannot rule one another.

    It almost seems like Iraq, even under a dictator there was some sort of order. Many black africans cannot get it together as being black isn't enough, it comes down to tribal disputes. Whites don't have that issue.

    As old as you are, you are quite confused. Whites have been killing and raping since time begun. Even in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, whites are raping the young girls for whatever twisted superiority reason. The millions of black women and men that have been brutually killed and raped and beat and systematically treated like flith, you can't be serious!

    Actually, the fundamental place that you responded show how biased and completely confused you are. Do you realize how many countries have had up to 25% of their countries killed off because of white supremacy and its need to rule and conquer? And we are not talking about raping 2 year old kids because they have done much worse than that, and it is all documented if you were to do any real research instead of popping off about some racist ideology that has no basis.

    White people have just as many issues with fighting, as anyone else. Ireland ring a bell? Bosnia ring a bell? Russia ring a bell? I had a man from Bosnia with a scar from one part of his face to another, detailing for a group of us the horrors in his country.

    Don't you go bringing it down to race about black africans getting it together because there is no "color" or "race" that has the cornerstone on it. And as someone from Mexico, you should know better. 10% of your hispanic country is trying to come to this country, the corruption in Mexico is so terrible and you can't blame that on black people.

    But you know what, I want intelligent dialogue on this subject, I won't go back and forth with an obvious racist to get his rocks off on "black Africans". I have watched these subjects enough and I was really tired of all the black african insults and hypocrisy. Enough already.

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    Layla,

    I am not ignorant or stupid, and do not care for your remarks against me personally. I did not count how many times you wrote "ignorant." Does it make you feel better evey time your type it? Does it elevate your level as the BMOC?

    One must have first hand knowledge on a subject in order to speak on the it? I never met a Governing Body member, so I will no longer speak about them? I never went to Bethel, so I can not speak about what happens there? I will not trust what others have written, including Ray Franz or Barbara Anderson. I never faced the blood issue against my own body, so I will not speak about that? I never was molested as a child in the JWs, so I can not speak on Silent Lamb matters? I never went to war, so I can not speak on it? I've never been to Iraq, so I will have no qualified opinion there either? The books where I base my knowledge are well written & researched books, written by respected people, on the African nation.

    You said that you had to look at how the current governments were put into place. That's why I read the following book earlier this year. Guess Martin Meredith doesn't know a thing....

    The Fate of Africa: A History of Fifty Years of Independence

    The Fate of Africa: A History of Fifty Years of Independence
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    Share your own customer images
    Start reading The Fate of Africa: A History of Fifty Years of Independence on your Kindle in under a minute.

    Don’t have a Kindle? Get yours here. Another poster responded that people were being black v. white, and I wanted no confusion about where I stood on that issue. I was not responding directly to you on that point.

    You are the Chief Expert on Africa, Egypt, South Africa, Safaris, and everything else. I hope you move back or visit your beloved land. You are welcome to send me a postcard. You can send it to "Ignorant Skeeter", the postman knows where I live.

    Skeeter

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    Sammielee,

    Thanks for that updated piece. Things change fast in African countries. Now, Nigeria, doesn't look stable!

    But, I've never been to Nigeria, at least not in February 2008. So, I can not comment on it and my opinion is worthless. And, I can't trust the writer, Cathy Buckles, either. These are Layla's rules for me to follow. If I follow Laylas rules, I will not be "ignorant" anymore.

    Layla, can you teach us about Nigeria? Should I book a Safari tour there to gain first hand knowledge? Or, is Zimbabwe now the better place at this time? When I read "Dark Star Safari" which was set in the early 2000's, Zimbabwe wasn't a good place to be. It had gone from the "bread basket of Africa" and an exporter of food....to not having much food in the markets. Robert Mugave is a hero, isn't he Layla? (Only comment if you have first hand knowledge & met Robert Mugave),

    Dark Star Safari: Overland from Cairo to Capetown
  • Layla33
    Layla33

    Skeeter,

    What is your reasoning for placing the link to a book? There are thousands and I do mean thousands of books on the Africa continent, as well as South Africa. There are people that do nothing but teach about African civilization, what is the point to link to even more than one? I mean quite honestly, what is your point? If you read my writing I said there is a lot of corruption in Africa, and if you like I can copy and paste it. What I will not say is that Africa in its entirety is corrupt. I think the United States of Amercia is corrupt, I think Mexico is corrupt, I think Russia is corrupt, I can name so many places where corruption lives, do I think that's the end of the dialogue, can I make a sweeping generalization and that is all.

    I called you ignorant on this subject and I stand by it. We are talking about something tangible that you must experience in order to have a true and honest perspective. You can't talk to me about swimming in water unless you have been wet and experienced, you can link books, document everyone else's experiences, but you can't have an honest educated conversation with me on it unless you have experienced it yourself.

    I do not mean to insult you personally, however, I really felt like you became very antagonistic towards me simply over a difference of opinion and remember now, you came after me in this thread and proceeded to do what, I am not sure, but if you come after me attacking me in the unwarranted way you did, what do you expect? I don't have any idea who you are at all and couldn't fathom any reason why you personalized it to me in the way in which you did. So if anyone is attacking anyone personally it is you. I simply stated my ideas on someone stating their case about a country they have not even visited, it is ignorant to speak on that subject with authority in RESPONSE TO YOU.

    And we can cease this round and round anytime you want.

    The rest of what you wrote was childish and silly. I wrote from my personal experiences and the many interactions I have had with South Africans. You really need to stop with all that, it is not that serious and it is really stupid. I mean really. And before you get confused, I mean the line of where you went in this response, it was jus unnecessary.

  • brinjen
    brinjen

    OK I'm not getting into the 'what's wrong with Africa' simply because I don't know enough about the country to comment.

    I will say there are many South Africans here in Darwin, and they do very well. Employment always availible, cost of living not too bad either.

  • Layla33
    Layla33

    Sammielee,

    Thanks for that updated piece. Things change fast in African countries. Now, Nigeria, doesn't look stable!

    But, I've never been to Nigeria, at least not in February 2008. So, I can not comment on it and my opinion is worthless. And, I can't trust the news report either. These are Layla's rules.

    Layla, can you comment on Nigeria? Should I book a Safari tour there to gain first hand knowledge? Or, is Zimbabwe now the better place?

    Skeeter

    Skeeter,

    Grow up. When you have an honest intelligent question to ask me do so. I am not moderating this thread, I am giving my opinion on this topic. If you don't like it, just scroll past me and speak about how you feel, but don't think that insulting a billion plus people like the entire continent of Africa is a mess and those that don't see it are delusional is going to go without a word. Isn't that what you wrote? You don't think it is offensive and out of line especially from someone who has never been there. How about if someone said you are a mess, but they never met you. Is that right? Are you getting it yet???

    You have no real interest in Africa, this is all about your ego right now and it's so obvious.

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    "childish and silly"

    Who is attacking who? Send me a postcard, mark it "Ignorant Skeeter at 555 Childish Ways, Town of Silly, Corrupt Florida"

    I present the books, so you can tell me if they are trash or not.

    Yes, corruption is everywhere in large & in small parts. (But, I"ve not been everywhere, so I shouldn't comment).

    Where I have spent alot of time & where I live...I can speak of that. I live in the United States, near the beach, about as far south as one can goh. I've never thought about leaving where I live due to reasons as the original poster of this thread had. And, I can walk 90% of my town, at night, without fear. I'm a little person, so I'd be easy prey. But, I walk the beaches at night, without fear. I take my children to the beaches, during the day & at night, and even use public transportation (Spring Break & snowbirds make it impossible to drive a car to the beach). So, I'd rather be here...then in NIgeria, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Sudan, Johanassburg, Algeirs, Morracco, etc., etc., etc. where public transportation, walking alone at night, or taking young children out is not advised by the books and State Department travel advisories I've read.

    honest intelligent question to ask me do so

    What countries in Africa do you recommend is a great place to live,and why? Are there 10 countries in your list?

    Skeeter

  • Layla33
    Layla33

    Places I would live in Africa.

    1) Ghana

    2) Zanzibar

    3) Egypt

    4) Mororocco

    4) Ethiopia

    5) Reunion

    6) Angola

    7) Sudan

    8) Nigeria

    9) Madagascar

    10) Kenya

    11) Seychelles

    12) Benin

    Honestly, there are places on the continent of Africa where kids play until dark, laugh in the water without a care in the world. They have not been indoctrinated by hate or judgment and they live peaceful nomadic lives. Open your mind.

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