Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

by minimus 119 Replies latest jw friends

  • gymbob

    When I was leaving "The Truth", I asked my dad (the elder) this question: Is there any way possible that the witnesses might not be who they claim to be? He didn't even have to think about it, but answered, NO WAY. So I said, "Is it POSSIBLE for you to be wrong about that?", and he said, "no, it's impossible for them not to be who they claim to be".

    This is how JW's believe. I believe any JW would answer the same way.

    To say it's IMPOSSIBLE that you're wrong is the definition of being CLOSED-MINDED.

    Since leaving the witnesses I have asked this same couple of questions to Mormons, Christian fundamentalists, Jews, etc about their own beliefs, and get the same response......

    Everybody has the truth, just ask them and they will tell you!

  • Pickled

    Thank you Don Cameron for writing your book "Captives of a Concept". If anyone reading this thread has not read it yet, it is an essential read. It is the clearest, most direct source of information about why the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" did not qualify to receive that appointment by Jesus Christ that I have ever read. His book outlines all the dates, references to watchtower literature, and comparisons to scripture that explains clearly this erroneous belief.

    If you are currently "studying" with the Jehovah's Witnesses and would like to consider a logical and easy to read argument that addresses the very foundations of their beliefs, this is the book to start with.

    I have researched and spent countless hours combing through Watchtower literature and have learned a great deal on my own. But what this book offers are solid ideas in one single book that I did not notice until I read Mr. Cameron's book, in spite of the months I spent researching. He presents core ideas, and ideas that go to the very heart of everything you are studying right now.

    The book is affordable and worth every penny.

  • Pickled

    I wondered while reading Don Cameron's book if the average Witness could openly profess to disregard 48 of the Watchtower's basic teachings of today, and still be considered a member in good standing.

    Clearly this would not be the case, and yet that is exactly what happened at their highest level.

  • shamus100

    What I don't understand is why you're all referring to Jehovahs Witnesses as 'the truth'. The lie is more appropriate.

    Maybe minimus is a troll after all....

  • Tired of the Hypocrisy
    Tired of the Hypocrisy

    Lying is ok if you have a theocratic stragety motive for doing so.

  • wokeup

    Armaggedon is just around the corner, you will walk right into the new system of things, you will not have to taste death, if you obey us.

    Gen.3:4 sounds familiar?

    Here's one, if the salvation of humankind is dependant upon 'doing good' to Christs brothers' aka the FDS, then the 6 billion people on earth are doomed

    since most couldn't name one or even meet one. The blood of Christ is nullified,heaven forbid.

    Isaiah 43:10, the banner scripture for the Society, applied to a rebellious nation of a defunct religion rejected by God. And the modern day application?


  • Pickled

    Tired of the Hypocrisy wrote: “Lying is ok if you have a theocratic strategy motive for doing so.”

    I noticed this going on a lot. I realize that people tend to hide things or lie about them when they think others will think it is wrong. That is true everywhere, and in different religions different things are met with different degrees of disapproval. But it seemed that because the stakes are so high among the JW, if you are caught doing something wrong, that it created an atmosphere of deception as a permanent condition. Threats do not change an individual it just makes them better at hiding what they are actually doing.

    Rarely was the initial expression of thoughts the most honest one for that individual. I felt a sense of sadness at times because most of the time it took a very deliberate and gentle series of questions before my study partners would get closer to how they really felt about a certain issue. Sometimes we never got there at all.

    This probably isn’t the kind of deception to which Tired of the Hypocrisy was alluding. Possibly you meant the kind that causes that long pause and a scrambling of thoughts when the potential convert finds a portion of doctrine on their own that is still on the books, but is rarely mentioned anymore. Or maybe the outright lying that sometimes occurs when the JW is trying every method they have perfected over time to draw you in, in the hope that you will have become so convinced of this new belief system that the most outlandish of the doctrines or burdensome expectations will cease to matter when finally discovered. This must be what happens when faithfulness is reduced to numbers on a card. It’s odd that a husband can know you love him even when you have never given him a piece of paper indicating just how many hours you have been faithful.

    My personal observations left me feeling saddened many times. Because whenever a person makes a lifestyle of hiding their true thoughts, it creates a psychological split that is mentally very destructive and impossible to live with without a great deal of deep inner turmoil and anxiety. The most devastating aspect of this inevitable condition is that the members, at the same time, are left without an avenue of healing, recovery, or change apart from steps they hopefully take after leaving altogether. It seems to be an ongoing and frustrating cycle of searching for comfort within the very arrangement causing the turmoil.

    If you are currently studying this new religion, start expressing all of your thoughts about it now. If that is what you are genuinely thinking and you get a negative response, then it is up to you to change how you view it or to continue thinking it and live with the response. Don’t start down that path of lying to yourself, and lying to those around you in order to fit in. If you don’t believe it, say it. My advice would be, if you don’t believe it and it seems to not fit at all with who you are, leave it behind with the idea that you can always come back later. Lying to make something fit is the same as shopping for shoes with a new friend and buying a size 7, when you really wear a size 9, just so your new friend won’t think you have big feet. You will either have to secretly return them when your friend isn’t around, or live with the pain. The bigger issue here is what’s wrong with a size 9?

  • minimus

    "The Truth" is what IT is called. Of course, it's a lie!

  • Pickled

    Minimus, I think it would provide a wealth of information if the former Witnesses on this site could share their own specific former approach they used in the effort to convince others of that same lie.

    I understand that they no longer believe it, and in many cases that process included a great deal of pain. However, isn't it simply a fact that in order to now be a former member who realizes it was all lie, you had to have previously been someone who was actively participating in and attempting to convince others of that same lie? Isn't it true that members are encouraged to actively "preach" with the goal in mind to convince others that what they are "preaching" is the truth?

    Part of healing, recovering, and spending time online in an effort to make others aware of something that caused so much pain, could include sharing in an unvarnished and clear way your own previous role in spreading those same ideas that you have now realized were false and destructive.

    As I said before, if two-thirds of Witnesses are walking out the door and still the number of members are increasing however slight, that means that there are many people who may stop and read this thread who are looking at this religion for the first time.

    That means that there are so many people who have just started down this road who could benefit tremendously from hearing honest open accounts of methods that were used to initiate curiosity, to convince them to begin a study, and then finally lead them to baptism and membership. Maybe you could share thoughts about the place you were in then, and who you were and why, instead of just what you realize now looking back. The potential new converts today have not been through the same thing. All they know right now is that two very nice, well dressed and smiling people are standing in their doorway managing to do what all the other religions stopped doing years ago. They are impressed with the conviction these people must have about the bible, and their willingness to spend so much time doing the very unpopular and often mocked practice of going door to door. They are polite, they are interested in what is going on in the world, they are sympathetic to their worries, fears, and concerns.

    I know that exposing what "they" are doing is a great way to help others. But what did YOU do when you were a Witness? Did you have a really unique approach or method that you were proud of? What were your real thoughts THEN as you were doing it? How did you manage to act as though you valued the life of a potential convert, while at the same time feeling quite comfortable with the belief that God was going to incinerate them one day if they failed to believe you? How did you reconcile those two thoughts?
    I am not talking about sharing things that were pleasant to you that you might miss. I am talking about sharing a behind the scenes view that you REALLY had of potential converts....those people "in the world". What lies did YOU tell them in your effort to win them over? Yes, former witness are victims of a great deception, but the unique thing is that they all participated in the victimization as well. Why not turn that into a tremendous tool?

  • quietlyleaving


    How did you manage to act as though you valued the life of a potential convert, while at the same time feeling quite comfortable with the belief that God was going to incinerate them one day if they failed to believe you? How did you reconcile those two thoughts?

    By focusing on the apostle Paul's interpretation of Jesus Christ .

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