Universal Issue of Sovereignty Does NOT Exist....Proof......

by oompa 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • oompa
    oompa

    We are taught that the $hit mankind has endured for thousands of years is because Satan said something that could be construed to be bad about God, and so God said...."let's let mankind see if they are better off following Satan and leading themselves, or following me." Now thousands of years later, this Universal Issue is still not settled...after all...the angles and demons are waiting with baited breath for the end result.

    Do you think that just because you were taught since youth that this "Universal Sovereignty Issue" is real, it is? If not why?

    I have some REAL GOOD Biblical reasons this is not even an issue.............................................oompa

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    Always enjoy a good argumentation - let 'er rip!

  • AWAKE&WATCHING
    AWAKE&WATCHING

    I call BULLS**T, hey, but that's just me. (shrugs shoulders and lights up a smoke)

  • oompa
    oompa

    I am not sharing to Biblical goodies til I get some debate!....................oompa........but this is good!

  • Layla33
    Layla33

    I don't believe everything in the Bible because it has been rewritten so many times, it took 300 years to be canonized, it is not the only version of the world, it was basically a Jewish account of what was happening in the world and then when they decided to make the bible, they rejected and edited things many times, over hundreds of years. Therefore, I take many different historical writings and make a qualified decision about life and spirituality. There were people living in Asia, and all over the world besides just the one account of the bible.

    And I don't believe the Universal Sovereignity theory at all. Just my own personal perspective.

  • inkling
    inkling

    I just thought of a little theory that, if i may say so, may be an improvement on the plan that God actually went with...

    ahem.

    I call in the "Two Planet Solution". Right from the start, make TWO worlds, identical to start with, and give one to Satan after he "issues his chalange", and a free shuttle between them.

    Any anarchists who want to smoke crack while on a puppy killing spree can go live on satan's planent, and the rest of us get a little peace and quiet and a decent cup of tea.

    [inkling[

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ

    What Layla33 said.

    But just for argument sake I'll take a try at it. If you just go with what is written in what the JW call the bible, under a tyrannical god like good old Jehovah rebellion is inevitable. Don't forget even your thoughts are spied upon so you can't even think about something he does not approve of without him knowing.

    Now if we are being "tested" to prove that we can't rule our self the experimentation is flawed because of all the curses god put on humankind and all the natural disasters that have nothing to do with so called sin.

    There are so many things that are wrong with that dogma that I don't have enough time to go trough all them.

  • chicken little
    chicken little

    hello oompa dumpa

    I used to wonder why the issue had to drag out on earth when it all started in heaven and the issĂșe was there. I couldnt understand why Satan gets to live all these thousands of years and yet we poor mortal souls get the zap after a miserly 70-80 years. Life is life even if he ends up in abyss he is still not dead. Actually even Adam mr trouble got to live over 900 years and look at the muwumba he dropped us .

    byeeeeeeeeeeeee chicken little

  • The Last Nephilim
    The Last Nephilim

    IMO, if it is an issue, it is only an issue to humans. The bible tells us that the demons do not question God's sovereignty, as illustrated by the dialog between Jesus and a few demons he encountered (Mat 8:29, James 2:19). If demons recognize that Jesus is God's son and that he is to torment them at some point, then who is God proving the issue of Universal sovereignty to? The angels who did NOT rebel against him? No, they are privy to the same if not more knowledge as the demons. The only ones left are humans! And we all know that the bible says that we need God because we can't figure things out on our own (Jer 10:23), so only people who don't believe the bible (according to the bible) are the only ones who do not recognize God's sovereignty! So why is he trying to prove his sovereignty to them? Not to mention that he makes those who acknowledge His sovereignty suffer right along with those who don't, which proves nothing! Makes no sense to me!

    I'll illustrate it this way; Your neighbor is your best friend (Jehovah), and has a pair of trained attack dogs (Satan, demons) that he doesn't want anymore. He tells everyone that the dogs will attack at will until he gives the command not to. If anyone else happens to give the right command, they may or may not listen. He lets these dogs run loose in the neighborhood knowing that all of his friends, including you, must come and go on a daily basis. If the dogs are nearby, this will be extremely difficult! If not, you might make it for the day. All of the people in His household (Jesus, angels) are protected from these attacks by various means, and all know the precise commands and tones of voice to use to control the dogs. To beat it all, you have seen these dogs viciously attack your other friends relentlessly until they were begging for your best friend to command them to stop, but all he does is try to coach the person to defend themselves amidst all the noise and stress and pain, saying, "I'm proving a point". Years go by and the dog attacks continue, some even turning out fatal for the victim, all the while your Best friend watches every attack and does nothing. Then a point in time comes when He bans the dogs from coming onto His property (Satan banished to earth) by building a fence around his property and leaving the neighbors to fend for themselves, leaving only a written copy of how to try to resist the dogs (bible). At some point he says he will call off the dogs and send them to the pound to be put to death once and for all so everyone can live in peace.

    What point does this prove?

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi oompa,
    Once again that is another total WTO falsehood. We are in the $hit because of this

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=3&version=31

    Note the $hit is clearly described at the end.


    This is the way out of the $hit

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=5&version=31&context=chapter

    Or same way out here

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=15&version=31&context=chapter

    Hope that helps,
    Stephen

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