The bible says that jesus is the one who actually created, runs and sustains all. Would not the issue be between him and satan? Would not jesus' death and resurrection have settled everything, once and for all? Seems to me, that the only issue for which god could be faulted is the transfer. Anything else is w jesus. And, he closed the case, 2000 yrs ago.
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Universal Issue of Sovereignty Does NOT Exist....Proof......
by oompa 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Satanus
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snowbird
The bible says that jesus is the one who actually created, runs and sustains all.
Yes, it does!
Would not the issue be between him and satan?
Absolutely!
Would not jesus' death and resurrection have settled everything, once and for all?
Yes, it would have - if there were such an issue!
Good call, Satanus
Sylvia
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Satanus
Oops! I realised that i might have made some christians happy w my post. Sorry about that ;-)
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snowbird
Oops! I realised that i might have made some christians happy w my post. Sorry about that ;-)
SNah. I'm happy to see that you edited the 200 to 2,000.
Sylvia
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mentalclearness
yeah the sovereignty issue never satisfied my answer about suffering........I actually feel embarassed that i told other people that silly reasoning. I mean ...what was I thinking?????
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Must obey!
I do believe in an issue of universal sovereignty (more about 'free will') but whether the issue makes sense or not depends on whether you believe that resurrecting everyone who has ever suffered and died in this 'old system' is justifiable so long as they all get resurrected into a 'new system' where they will enjoy life for centuries, hopefully for all eternity, in a future paradise earth without suffering and death. The question then is: is such a future prospect for all the dead who suffered horribly enough to negate that suffering & death? My view is that this definitely would be enough and that Jehovah is justified in not intervening to remove wickedness PROVIDED that this future paradise earth, resurrection scenario that the JW's preach will actually come about! I see nothing wrong with the logic that given sufficently long time horizons and pleasant enough future conditions, whatever happens to a person in this short lifetime can be made up for.
And it wasn't J F Rutherford who first came up with this theory...it was Ellen G White of the 7th day Adventists with her book "The Great Controversy"...written long before Rutherford. Rutherford clearly borrowed his ideas from this.
What is wrong about the JW's version of this issue is the horrendous idea that Jehovah is going to kill for all eternity billions of humankind soon at Armageddon. That makes a mockery of Jehovahs love, justice, mercy and blows the whole theory out of the water.
Satan never claimed to be able to turn all of mankind away from God. JW's seem to imagine that if only a tiny fraction of humanity can avoid being corrupted by Satan then that is enough to settle the issue of universal sovereignty! Nonsense! If God is forced to slaughter nearly all of the human race at Armageddon, then Satan would clearly have won the issue of Universal Sovereignty, even if some of mankind always kept their integrity!
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oompa
mustobey:
And it wasn't J F Rutherford who first came up with this theory...it was Ellen G White of the 7th day Adventists with her book "The Great Controversy"...written long before Rutherford. Rutherford clearly borrowed his ideas from this.
What is wrong about the JW's version of this issue is the horrendous idea that Jehovah is going to kill for all eternity billions of humankind soon at Armageddon. That makes a mockery of Jehovahs love, justice, mercy and blows the whole theory out of the water
I really appreciate your post. how did you find out the origin of The Issue here? It seems most of our jw stuff came from millerites or adventists doesnt it? And AMEN to you second sentence here.....That is part of one of my "why I dont want to worship a god that..." posts. makes no sense.......................................................................................................oompa
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Must obey!
You're welcome Oompa, thanks. I was born into the Watchtower religion so have known about the 'issue of universal sovereignty' (JW style) since childhood, but I first found out about Ellen G White's book The Great Controversy when in my teens, when I saw an old copy in a second-hand book shop. Just do a Google search for it and you could read it for free on the internet now.
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bobld
I believe their was a power struggle in heaven and
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sandy
Before I got baptized at the ripe mature old age of 13 an elder asked me if I had any questions about the bible that haven't been answered.
I told him that I didn't understand why God allowed the world to go on after Adam and Eve sinned. Why didn't he just destroy the two of them for disobeying and start over. That is when he gave me the Universal Issue of Sovereignty explanation. You would think I'd have already known the answer since my baptism was already approved and only a few weeks away. And after-all I was 13 years old and knew everything there was to know about life.
Anyways that answer did not satisfy me but I had to say oh right that makes sense. Thank you elder adulterer for clarifying that for me.
The adultery scandal involving him and a single witness lady came out into the open a couple months after I took the plunge.
I think that explains why he let me get baptized even though I hadn't fully understood all the JW doctrines. He seemed like a nice man and I'm sure he was feeling guilty about his sin and felt like he had no place judging me.
So I don't have scriptures to back up my take on the subject but it makes no sense to me that a righteous and loving God would allow so much evil and injustice to go on just to prove he is the only one capable of ruling humankind. This explanation leaves more questions than answers for me.