News from Mother ship (page 4)

nomoreguilt

I am a firm believer in the mind set and strategy of always having my finger on the pulse of my enemy. Not that I have any enemies, just a strategem. I do believe that the Gb is well aware of what is said here, and that they no doubt have personnel assigned to do just that. It's a wily game that they play here. They have always preached that they have an enemy, the church, the govts., etc. Now, more than ever, and larger than their previously conceived enemies, they have US!

They know that WE know how they operate. Because of us, they are constantly scrambling to cover their own back sides. The truth be known, it is now necessary for them to re-organize from the cong level up to create a buffer between the cong. and the Gb in legal cases. Hopefully the R&F will see this for what it is and start scrutinzing the WTS even more.

NMG

Mary

jeffreywhat said: Bethel in NY suspect high level apostate, cant identify it but know its there.

This would be absolutely fantastic if there were another 'Ray Franz' incident at Bethel. My opinion has long been that had that happened within the last 10 years, the fallout would have been 100 times worse than what it was, simply because Witnesses----even loyal ones-----could and most likely would have clicked on the internet to find out what had happened. That option simply wasn't around in 1981, and unless you were directly involved, you only knew what the big guns wanted you to hear.

2. Major Organizational changes about to start rolling out, one is changes to the "service committee" and titles, PO to be done away with, thats all I know for now.

Does the PO really have that much authority anymore? I was always under the impression that the elders more or less had to decide things amongst themselves----sort of like the Governing Body. Major Organizational changes are always welcome though, because they generally end up screwing the rank and file, and those are the ones that will end up leaving.

It makes you wonder where the GB and their henchmen lawyers are trying to lead the Organization. The obviously know that The End is no closer now than what it was 130 years ago. Yet if they abandon things like 1914, 1918, the whole 'us vs. them' mentality, then the whole thing could collapse, as that is the very foundation of the religion: being 'different'.

Keep us posted as to anything knew you hear Jeff.

cultswatter

YAEEESSSSS!!!

1. Bethel in NY suspect high level apostate, cant identify it but know its there

OOPS maybe the art departrment is in trouble.... .gee anything we did???

Nathan Natas

Operator

with apologies to Manhattan Transfer

Operator

Give me information

Information

Give me long distance

Long distance

Give me heaven...

(two, three)

Operator

Information

Give me Freddy on the line

Operator

Information

I'd like to speak to a friend of mine

Oh prayer is the number

Faith is the exchange

Heaven is the street

And Freddy is his name

Operator

Information

Please give me Fred Franz on the line

Operator

Information

Wont you tell me why

Tell me why

Operator

Information

Dont try to tell me

What number to call

My mother used this number

When I was very small

And everytime she dialed it

She always got to call the

Operator

Information

Please give me Freddy on the line

Operator

Information

Please hurry if you can

Oh operator

Information

Please connect me

With the man

Dont worry bout the money

You know I will pay the charge

Just give me on the line

I'm callin In from Bethel

Operator

Information

Please give me Fred Franz on the line

Wont you please -

Give me Freddy

Give me Fred Franz on the line!

Yeah!

hear the original here: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0r8286teVgc

tijkmo

at least when ray was outed it was because higher ups questioned his more reasonable humane attitude toward the r & f.

not seeing much of that coming from headquarters lately.

unless the idea of doing away with the title of p.o is the apostates idea and this had 'alerted' the others who don't want to relinquish titles.

i was discussing this at dinner with my pioneer sis and her ms husband this evening...we think that p.o.s should now have the title 'the lowly one'. see how they like to introduce themselves to others with that title..

wouldn't change the mind set tho.

when i was appointed p.o there was another elder that wanted the position..and boy did he sulk when he didnt get it..started parrotting things that other elders said in that meeting in their voice..talk about childish. i could have cared less anyway - i wanted to be the service overseer. which i became the next co viist because by that time it was a new co who wanted to be different from the co that had appointed me and also because the elders that had voted for me had now moved so my supporters were now in the minority..so i got to be service overseer for a few months until another elder decided he had had enough of doing the school and so pointed out that since i hadn't completely erradicated irregularity then i wasn't up to the job and he could do it better. so he tried for a few months and then when he wasn't successful he decided to move congs aswell.

lots of evidence of holy spirit there then..it was almost as if someone was doing something wrong that was stopping the flow...o wait a minute that was me...o no wait another minute it wasnt at that time altho one could understand that being treated like crap could eventually make someone act crappilly

journey-on

I'm sure this came from the Legal Dept. if it's true.....(I'm not doubting that it is, but...) It is all about $$$$, I can promise you that!

Lawsuits against individual P.O.s are probably out there and this ploy will cover their asses.....no title, no proof they are official leaders.

Sneaky bunch of b**stards trying to head off HUGE multiple lawsuits across the board of congregations. Think about....anybody that's

been harmed by the practices of this cult or suffered mental anguish at the hands of a JC or any number of other things can file a lawsuit

against an elder or body of elders. Whether they win or not, the elder has to defend himself. If this is done over and over constantly,

think what it does to the pocketbook of these window-washing pompass judgmental elders.

Hortensia

sort of like a soap opera, isn't it? I don't donate $$$ to those folks, don't let them control my life, don't have family in any more, so it's more like, well, a comic opera. Or some badly written book about hijinks and politics between church leaders. Anyone read Susan Howatch's series about the church of England? Very good reading. This stuff about the Gb is pretty entertaining, too.

notyetx

It is hard to imagine that much would change (in terms of the local BOEs) unless their most powerful weapon-the judicial process- was either reformed or eliminated. Their relationship with the congregations would remain the same- an unpaid clergy class without meaningful accountability inside the local congregation itself. If speaking against (or arguing against) an elder is still tantamount to arguing against an divinely appointed agent of Jesus and worthy of some punishment, then nothing really can ever change. End the disfellowshipment policy and open up the appointment process (and all the congregation records as well).

There were always be a hierarchy- and that is the problem. The first century congregation was much more egalitarian. Even though Paul hated women, they had a more significant role. Disagreement and debate was normal.

To really change the BOEs, return democracy to the process. There should be an appointment and retention process where the CO and BOE have a role in the initial appontment of both men and women.

The BOE is a political body as it is anyway. Let them prove their worth and have limited terms of 2 years. If they are no good, throw them out. Make them servants rather than overseers. (Only slaves have overseers.)

I hope this is a real development. Maybe reform might still be possible.

DT

Think about....anybody that's
been harmed by the practices of this cult or suffered mental anguish at the hands of a JC or any number of other things can file a lawsuit
against an elder or body of elders. Whether they win or not, the elder has to defend himself.

Has anybody had success with this for cases other than pedophilia? How about small claims court? Imagine the result if elders started to realise that they could be held legally accountable for their actions.

journey-on

Make them servants rather than overseers. (Only slaves have overseers.)

They used to be called Servants (congregation servant, Watchtower Servant, Literature Servant, etc.) I think sometime in the 70's they became known as overseers. And you're right about the slaves....I've often thought this same thing.

Imagine the result if elders started to realise that they could be held legally accountable for their actions.

This is what I think people should start doing enmasse. Anybody faced with a JC and subsequently df'd ought to file a lawsuit against the individual elders....not the Big Watch Tower Corp. Even if they don't win, it could create awareness of the heinousness of this practice and raise consciousness of this issue.

News from Mother ship

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