It Is Very Cruel of God....

by AllTimeJeff 46 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Thiests like to portray their god as who they want him to be. Please allow me to use some extreme examples: The god of abortion clinic bombers worship a vengeful god and are convinced that this is what they should do to please him. Ditto those who commit hate crimes against homosexuals, or terrorist acts. They are worshiping their god.

    Certainly, most thiests in the USA are not like this. And I would in no way portray any thiest on JWD as such. But often, their standard of proof is much the same. Because in the end, they worship god as they want him to be.

    So they will tell you that "god" is a god of love. One name I have seen on JWD is JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Weird. Usually it's just Jesus. For those of us ex JW's, it was Jehovah. No matter. We all tried to paint a cruel god as loving. Loving sells better.

    It seems along the way that we forgot to check if it was true.

    Whether you subscribe to divine personal revelation or insist on a holy book, god is cruel. Being agnostic, I don't believe he exists anymore. If he does however, there is MUCH he has to answer for. So here are a couple of reasons for believing that god is cruel, and if he exists, owes me and all mankind an apology before I will ever worship.

    • God abandoned man. He did not protect us from evil things. He did not warn of Satan, if you believe that. He created us with urges for food, material shelter and sex, yet says that beyond a certain point to want these things is sinful, meriting punishment and death. It would have been much simpler to not create us to crave things he will destroy us for. But supposedly, god didn't.
    • God supposedly hates homosexuals. He will destroy people of other faiths who have no choice but to serve god as their culture and enviorenment portrayed him. Billions will die as a result of the accident of their birth. He hates any disagreement at all, and esp hates a lack of faith. (what thinking people call credulity)

    But lets move past the theological. Because it really is all about suffering. Human suffering and misery by the billions. People by the tens of millions held captive and used as pawn by petty dictators for their own whims. Women esp are treated like dirt. And I have seen that and it is horrible. Girls are taught that their whole purpose in life is for the man, and they are abused by the billions, as history teaches. What about food? 2 meals a day even? One?

    JW's used an intro from the "Reasoning" book that went something like "If you had the power to change one thing, what would it be? ... Surely God will do the same..." Wow. I can't believe I ever used that. Whats the wait? Why the wait? BECAUSE THEIR IS NO GOOD REASON!

    Other non JW thiests would say simply that God has a plan and his thoughts are higher then our thoughts. I can't help but think that those who feel this way have a queasy, uneasy superstitious fear of allowing that voice that says "I might be smarter then the god I worship" to populate their thoughts. But here's the point. If you and I would fix suffering if we had the power, then we are way ahead of god. God is cruel. People right now are starving, being beaten, dying, suicidal, and god is content to watch with some "plan"? Do you think a poor beaten mother of 5 gives a rats ass about gods plan as she watches another of her babies die while she herself hasn't eaten in weeks? That god wouldn't first communicate with the millions of starving women and children in other parts of the world before he communicates with a Christian is ridiculous! (how do I know god doesn't talk to them? Have you seen the pain and crying look on their faces? I do. Doesn't god? I would talk to them before I told some poor deluded fool that there is no faith in the world and that is why I don't reveal myself more....)

    God is cruel.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Being agnostic, I don't believe he exists anymore.
    God is cruel.

    Internally contradictory. If he does not exist, how can he be cruel?

    I can't help but think that those who feel this way have a queasy, uneasy superstitious fear of allowing that voice that says "I might be smarter then the god I worship" to populate their thoughts.

    Thats funny, no one that I know that believes has these queasy uneasy feelings. At least not normally. I'll allow that maybe in a moment of weakness or doubt.

    God abandoned man.

    No he didn't. :-)

    He created us with urges for food, material shelter and sex, yet says that beyond a certain point to want these things is sinful, meriting punishment and death. It would have been much simpler to not create us to crave things he will destroy us for. But supposedly, god didn't.

    The freedom to choose is the freedom to choose wrongly. Do you obey the speed limit AllTimeJeff? Why? Can your car go faster?

    God supposedly hates homosexuals. He will destroy people of other faiths who have no choice but to serve god as their culture and enviorenment portrayed him. Billions will die as a result of the accident of their birth. He hates any disagreement at all, and esp hates a lack of faith. (what thinking people call credulity)

    I do not even know where to start with this statement, honestly. I sounds like your only understanding of Christianity is what you learned in the Watchtower. I recommend these for you:

    Mere Christianity

    The Problem of Pain

    Do you think a poor beaten mother of 5 gives a rats ass about gods plan as she watches another of her babies die while she herself hasn't eaten in weeks?

    Do you pretend to know what that mother thinks about these things? I don't. She might be closer to God than I will ever be.

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    Good post all time......

    Who would in their right mind would want to praise and worship such a cruel God

    Maybe it was just human ignorance that a God like this came to be, ummmm... I think so

    Wait a minute humans weren't ignorant 3 or 4 thousand years ago, oh well

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    Internally contradictory. If he does not exist, how can he be cruel?

    In the same way that Emperor Palpatine is cruel.

    He's a very cruel fictional guy.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    AllTimeJeff.

    for believing that god is cruel, and if he exists, owes me and all mankind an apology before I will ever worship.

    I think your post incapsulates the argument for the nonexistence of God based on the problem of evil or suffering.

    I think first you need to establish that each and every instance of suffering is directly caused by God rather than the interaction of natural forces with freely willed beings. Otherwise, it becomes more difficult to argue that God is responsible, or that he owes an apology to you.

    Burn

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Wait a minute humans weren't ignorant 3 or 4 thousand years ago, oh well

    As we know, modern humans are not ignorant. They have reached the apex of wisdom.

    Humans four thousand years hence will recognize this about us.

    Every generation thinks it has it all figured out. Hubris.

    Burn

  • 5go
    5go

    You pretty much spelled out why I became a weak atheist. I want to believe there is a god but not the one the bible talks about. That guy is a sick mutha.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    I think first you need to establish that each and every instance of suffering is directly caused by God rather than the interaction of natural forces with freely willed beings. Otherwise, it becomes more difficult to argue that God is responsible, or that he owes an apology to you.

    If a cop stands idly by and lets someone rape and/or kill your wife or daughter, don't you think that cop owes you an apology? Even if he's not the 'direct cause'?

    Even more so if that cop is omnipotent, and therefore has no excuse like fear or inability.

    Lore - What.Would.Satan.Do?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Lore.

    Please describe a world in which there is no suffering or possibility of suffering . Essentially, we can't be hurt and we can't hurt anybody else.

    How would we then behave?

    Would we be good?

    Self-giving?

    Why bother, since nobody needs anything, physically, mentally, emotionally?

    Or would we be the worst kind of selfish pigs?

    How would that world be like?

    Would we posess a will?

    Burn

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Maybe world with even a great deal of suffering might be better on balance than a world without it if the world that has suffering also has a great deal of pleasure aloong with it. Some might even maintain that suffering makes pleasure even better, and thus be required for the state of affairs with the most good.

    Can you demonstrate that we do not live in such a world?

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