Throwing the Baby out with the Bathwater Goodbye Watchtower Hello Nothing?

by Magick 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Magick

  So who would the wise and faithful servant providing food to the household of faith in the end times? freyd

  funny you should ask freyd.

  this is part of the bath water that you can and should throw out. anyone can thumb through a bible and point at random and say "that's me! that's me! they're talking about me!"

  look up the history of jehovah's witnesses and see who they thought fit the category of "faithful servant" at different times...and who was the "faithful servant" for hundreds (thousand?) years before russell (or his wife maria) pointed and exclaimed "that's me!"

  russel is dead. so is rutherford. and so will a lot of old jehovah's witnesses... be dead soon who try to make this claim. (that's not a threat, merely an observance)

  the witnesses say that the "faithful and discreet slave" refer to the remaining (living) portion of the group of 144,000 people who go to heaven.

  how many are left? how many are actually "ruling" in bethel?

  anyway. different translations read:

  • faithful and sensible slave
  • faithful, thoughtful, and wise servant
  • faithful, sensible servant
  • wise and loyal servant
  • the servant, faithful and wise
  • faithful and prudent bondman

  Jehovah's Witnesses believe that this is the Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (which is made up of a few chosen members of the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class). "Christ uses this body to publish information on the fulfillment of Bible prophecies and to give timely direction on the application of Bible principles in daily life." Hence, they are referred to as the "remnant," the "anointed," God's "prophet", and God's "channel".

  So, do they have the right to make this claim? Well, sure. Anyone can claim anything.

  so, let me see if i can figure this out (a lowly woman who doesn't plan on going to heaven anytime soon)

  stewardship in the bible. a steward is a servant (slave) that jesus (the master) let's take care of his stuff while he is away. it's not the slave's stuff, it's still the master's.

  the bible is full of terms like this. servant, disciple, apostle. the term slave and master and the required obedience is a central theme.

  who can claim to be a slave of the master? Anyone.

  i ran accross a scripture that made me think:

  "As each one has received a gift, use it to serve one another as good stewards of God's varied grace." 1 Peter 4:10

  hmmm it says each one could be good stewards.

  different translations of 1 Pet. 4:10 read:

  • serve others, faithfully administering God's grace
  • each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards
  • good trustees of God
  • serve one another
  • each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards
  • Each of you has received a gift to use to serve others. Be good servants of God's various gifts of grace.
  • God has given each of you a gift. Use it to help each other. This will show God's loving-favor.
  • good managers
  • good dispensers
  • Each one should use his gift to help the others.
  • faithfully administering God's grace
  • faithful stewards of God's grace
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  freyd

  You're right, but you're wrong.
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  Magick

  You're right, but you're wrong. freyd

  alright, i'll take russell for $300. but, i refuse to serve drinks at the séance
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  Magick

  anyone else care to talk to freyd?
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  flipflop

  I enjoyed reading this. Your thoughts reflected mine exactly.
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  Magick

  I enjoyed reading this. Your thoughts reflected mine exactly.

  Hi flipflop!! WELCOME! Thank YOU....Hope to hear more from you! -Majick
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  Trevanian

  LOL at gregor!

  My first thought is that It would be nice for you to condense your thoughts and musings into bite sized morsels

  Have to agree, but an excellent post, Magick. Your heart is in overdrive.

  When I take a big bite of potato salad at the picnic and it tastes really bad I turn to the nearest garbage can and spit it out, "p'tooey!" I don't stop and say to myself,"Hmmm, if I don't eat this bad potato salad what will I eat? Maybe I should see what else there is to eat first, otherwise I will not have anything to eat...hmmm..."

  But I damn sure knew that the Watchtower dogma was spoiled potato salad.

  Brilliant. Have to agree with Gregor.

  When I left, I had not a SINGLE moment of grieving.

  Since then I've had to separate out:

  • The good values that the WTBTS teaches
  • The crap that the WTBTS teaches
  • My family's own values, taught to me at the same time that I was feeding on the rubbish
  • My own values - the toughest of all to figure out, and the most rewarding exercise

  But about religion, I still can't imagine ever going to a church (except for a wedding or a funeral). I know this is residual from my JW background but also, maybe I'm like the lesbian mentioned earlier, who had a really bad experience with one "man" so now can never trust men again.
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  Vanant

  This thread is great. It's hard to find this kind of introspective and thoughtful discussion anywhere else. Now I'll ramble on by myself here...

  When I left 3 years ago, I went through a transition period of a few months where I wondered if I should still believe in God or join another religion. All my life I was in a status of half-believing in JW theology, and half in doubt. My heart was never fully in it, but even now I still have irrational fears of evil spirits coming after me. During my transitional period, I came to realize that a huge reason that I was never able to believe was because of the reason that JWs explain why suffering exists, i.e. God is in a battle with Satan to prove his sovereignty over mankind. There are a few problems with that, since if God is almighty, why can't he just vanquish Satan in the first place and prevent all of this suffering? My parents acted like I was stupid for not believing it made perfect sense, but it just seemed to me like a big ego trip for their god. My mom actually tried to convince me that God exists because she thought he once saved her went she got a flat tire on a deserted road. I was so angry I felt like spitting on her, because she knew that someone in the congregation molested me as a kindergartener, she knew I suffered depression and debilitating anxiety for years, and somehow in twisted JW thinking, the loving almighty god thinks it's more important to help one person over another person, or any other person being caused pain for whatever reason. I figured that this god who set us up for failure by giving us the capability to do sin, but punishes us for acting how he created us, either isn't worth serving, or just doesn't exist at all.

  Therefore, I became an agnostic, since I can't prove things either way. The possibility of me ever joining a religion again are next to nil, because these logic problems apply to all of them. Spirituality is something foreign to me since the JWs were too bureaucratic to teach me anything about that, but if somehow figuring something out can help me, I hope I can learn and find peace someday. One can say my heart is still split into two, because I hate this god whom I believe doesn't exist.
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  darkuncle29

  For me, when i had my faith destroyed by a friend, it was like burning down the forest. But he also set me on a path to deliberatly explore and investigate other faiths, like planting wild flowers after the forest fire. I've landed on Taoism, not as a "thing" to believe in, but more as an overlay to see everything else through. I also like Zen thought as well.

  My partner is Pagan, but not part of a Coven as group activites to him seem too church like or too "Hollywood", so he's a Solitary practitioner, and on that level so am I.