Logic and the fallacy of 1914

by neverendingjourney 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • neverendingjourney
    neverendingjourney

    Logic dictates that to prove a conclusion you must break it down into its individual parts and prove each individual element.

    For instance, I can prove that 2+2=4. I can also prove that 4 - 1 = 3 and that 3+10= 13. Therefore, I can definitely prove my conclusion that that 2+2-1+10=13.

    However, I would be unable to prove that 2+z-1+10=13. Why? Because one of the elements, z-1, is unverifiable. The z is simply there to show that we don’t know what that particular number is. It could be 4. It could be 10. Or it could be 100. We simply don’t know. If it turns out that the unknown number represented by z is actually a 2, then my conclusion that 2+z-1+10=13 would indeed turn out to be correct. But if the number represented in my equation by the letter z turns out to be any other number but 2, my conclusion is false. We will never know for sure whether my conclusion is accurate or not without knowing exactly what number z represents. 2+z-1+10=13 is simply unverifiable and can never be said to be an unquestionably true and accurate statement.

    This is the beauty of logic. It’s exact. It’s precise.

    Let’s apply this lesson to the Jehovah’s Witness 1914 doctrine. The overall conclusion is that 1914 was the beginning of the end times and the year in which Satan was cast down from heaven. This conclusion is not presented as a mere theory, or as a likely conclusion, but as a fundamental Bible truth. As a JW you are supposed to lead your life as if 1914 marked the beginning of the end of the world. But is it really so? Is this conclusion really a 100% accurate Bible truth, one which we should use as the basis for all of our life choices? Let’s break this conclusion down to its individual parts and apply the logic I discussed above so see if this really is the case.

    The following list marks off some of the main individual building blocks that Jehovah’s Witnesses use to arrive at their 1914 conclusion:

    1. The vision in Daniel Chapter 4 has a second fulfillment in our time. This chapter describes a vision that King Nebuchadnezzar had of a large tree that was cut down for seven times “until the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men.”

    2. The seven times spoken about in Daniel Chapter 2 in the context of its alleged modern-day application are actually composed of prophetic years, meaning that each “time” is a year, and each day in this year is really itself one year. Therefore 7 times or years composed of 360 days of years actually equal a total of 2,520 years. You apply the day-year principle and the seven times are composed of a total of 2,520 years.

    3. The seven times of Daniel Chapter 4 are the same as the so-called Gentile Times that Jesus spoke about in Luke 21:24.

    4. The Gentile Times is a period of time in which God’s people are to be without a direct ruler over them.

    5. The Gentile Times, therefore, began with the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the Judean line of kings in 607 B.C. You count forward 2,520 years and you arrive at the year 1914 A.D, at which point Jesus was enthroned in heaven and God’s people once again had a direct ruler over them.

    6. The events described in Revelation Chapter 12 take place during the year 1914, which saw a great battle between Jesus and Satan that culminated in Satan being cast down from the heavens. This marked the beginning of the end times.

    NONE OF THESE BUILDING BLOCKS ARE VERIFIABLE.

    Let’s take a look at each of them in greater detail.

    #1 There is no way to definitively say that Daniel Chapter 4 has a second modern-day fulfillment. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that it has a second application because their religious leaders tell them it does. Nothing in the scriptures even suggests, much less asserts, that there is to be a second fulfillment of this chapter.

    #2 How can you say for sure that the seven times equal seven years? How can you say that each year is composed of 360 days? How can you say that each day is really a year so that the seven times equal seven years or 2,520 days, which in turn equal 2,520 years? Answer: You can’t! Jehovah’s Witnesses only buy into this because their religious leaders tell them to believe that. There is nothing verifiable about this element. It is pure conjecture and speculation.

    #3 How can you say that? What is there to make that conclusive link, other than wishful thinking? Who really knows what Jesus had in mind when he spoke about the “appointed times of the nations?” There is no way to conclusively prove that Jesus had Daniel Chapter 4 mind when he uttered those words.

    #4 Again, who’s to say what Jesus had in mind when he uttered the words recorded in Luke 21:24? There’s certainly no way to say for sure.

    #5 First of all, there is no credible evidence to suggest that 607 B.C. was even the year in which Jerusalem was destroyed. This point has been debated ad nauseam here, so I won’t attempt to debunk it. However, suffice it to say the consensus in the historical and archaeological communities is that Jerusalem was destroyed around 586 B.C. Therefore, not only is it impossible to prove that 607 B.C was the year in which Jerusalem was destroyed, it is also unlikely that this was the case. Even if it were so, how can we know for sure that the fall of Jerusalem was to see the beginning of the second application of Daniel Chapter 4? There is certainly nothing definitive in the Bible that says this. You can only arrive at that conclusion by being imaginative in your interpretation of Bible prophecy.

    #6 Again, how do we know that this is so? Jehovah’s Witnesses only buy into this because their leaders tell them that this is how to interpret that chapter. There is certainly nothing definitive in the text linking Revelation 12 and Daniel 4. It’s quite simply conjecture on their part.

    What does this all mean? That 1914 is not a 100% Bible truth as the Witnesses claim it is. What we’re left with is this: u+v+w+x+y+z=1914. We have at least six unprovable elements added up to support a conclusion. What we saw in our example above is that you are more likely to be wrong than right if you claim that 2+z-1+10=13. Why? Because there is one unprovable element there, and you can’t assert that you have a valid conclusion unless you can prove each individual part. In fact, any number other than 2 leads us to a false conclusion. This is even more pronounced when using six unprovable elements to reach a conclusion. It is almost a mathematical certainty that you are wrong. Why? Because if any of those elements turn out to be wrong, your whole conclusion is wrong.

    What’s the moral of this rather long story? That the Witnesses are simply wrong about 1914! There is absolutely no way that they have a 100% accurate Bible truth on their hands. What they have is an untenable conclusion based upon a series of unsustainable premises.

    It’s no wonder that the Jehovah’s Witness leadership lashes out at higher education and independent thinking. The false logic behind their 1914 fallacy is clear as day. A person who continues to believe this nonsense must simply want to refuse to see the light, and that’s exactly the attitude that they try to foster in their members. Indeed, The 1914 doctrine crumbles upon close inspection.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    Very good! Thank you.

    But I recommend you change the subject too "@LOGIC AND THE FALLACY OF 1914@" for comedic effect.

    Lore - W.W.S.D?

  • neverendingjourney
    neverendingjourney

    haha...

    I'd do it, but I'm afraid it'd scare away any potential viewers. My last topic barely got 150 views, so I can use as many views as I can get.

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Good post (in other words; bttt).

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    #1 There is no way to definitively say that Daniel Chapter 4 has a second modern-day fulfillment. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that it has a second application because their religious leaders tell them it does. Nothing in the scriptures even suggests, much less asserts, that there is to be a second fulfillment of this chapter.

    What is the justification for this?

    The WTS seems to have a facination with "greater fulfillments" but I'm not aware of any scriptures that indicate this is necessary.

    If it's ALREADY been fulfilled, then why assume it has to be fulfilled twice?

    Especially since MOST prophecies in the Bible could have been avoided if they had repented, so would God change his huge plans about 1914 just because the Israelites had the nerve to beg forgiveness?

    Lore - W.W.S.D?

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Everything in the Bible must have a second fulfillment, so that the current day self-proclaimed prophets can enrich themselves by claiming that ancient writings will be fulfilled within the lifetime of the reader.

    If all the Watchtower prophecies had been for dates like 2822 or 3105 instead of 1914 or 1975, nobody in the 20th century would have paid them much attention.

  • VM44
    VM44

    The 1914 doctrine is true because the Watchtower SAYS it is true!

    To be a Jehovah's Witness you must believe everything the Watchtower tells one to believe. Whether the doctrine is true or not is irrelevant. Loyalty to the Organization is more important than TRUTH.

    --VM44

  • heathen
    heathen

    I think the main embarrassing part is that they said the world would end not invisibly but literally and they would be in paradise shortly there after , then when that didn't happen they continued to pick dates for the conclusion, finally when all else failed they settled for invisibility . To this day in their publications they claim to have always been talking about invisibility and don't bother to explain all the flip flops . Ironically I still don't have a problem with the date or the invisibility . I do have a problem with the way they portray the organizations track record in current publications .

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    neverendingjourney,

    Well done.

    Regarding the WTS's perceived "secondary fulfillment" of Neb's dream of the tree. They acknowledge that the dream had its fulfillment on Nebuchadnezzar. I wonder if they say that the dream had a secondary fulfillment, or if they say that what happened to Neb was in itself the prophecy.

    If the latter, they have difficulty in proving that Neb's experience took place during seven 360-day "prophetic" years.

    Are there any WTS quotes that show whether the dream had a second fulfillment or if Neb's experience was the prophecy?

    Doug

  • sweet pea
    sweet pea

    marking for later....

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