Why is religion such a mass of confusion?

by evergreen 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  jgnat

  I guess if you are looking for one true way, that's what it can look like. It's like trying to organize loose jello or rolling mercury.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZCDknHEnqQ

  I could ask similarly, why is nature such a mass of confusion? I mean you have all this jumbled variety with no apparent sense or reason. There is a reason....sort of.... but deciphering why a poplar grows here and refuses to grow there, well, it might take a lifetime to figure it all out.

  It's the mathematical imitation of chaos, fractals, that gave science the first hints that natural events may have an underlying order. The complexity, however, is on several orders of magnitude that is hard for a person to comprehend.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuyRCfhCZT0

  How does this compare to the multifarious religions that are available to choose from? Instead of trying to reconcile them all, why not make a list of those principles we all have in common? I've been having great conversations with my muslim friend. Elements we both have in common include "treat people right" and "do good even at great personal cost".
• 

  Anti-Christ

  Hey, JC, look up Judges 1:19 . Oh, I am so scared, behold a god who cannot defeat iron chariots shall smite us down, heathens that we are. Maybe if I slaughter a bull and let the sweet aroma of its blood lift up to the heavens, he'll forgive me and not rain down death. Seriously , how can people buy this stuff?
• 

  Anti-Christ

  Then there is the twisting of scriptures to suit the beliefs of the thousands of Christain denominations around the world. Confused? I am.

  Why is the christian faith the right one? Have you looked at Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.. If you want to have "faith" then there is no way in knowing for sure which one is the right one, if there is a right one, so why not make your own one.
• 

  nvrgnbk

  Instead of trying to reconcile them all, why not make a list of those principles we all have in common? I've been having great conversations with my muslim friend. Elements we both have in common include "treat people right" and "do good even at great personal cost".

  Excellent idea.

  So if you look for the "good" in common between religions, and strip away the superfluous, don't you end up with something like this...

  The Affirmations of Humanism:
  A Statement of Principles

  • We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
  • We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
  • We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
  • We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
  • We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
  • We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
  • We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
  • We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
  • We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
  • We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
  • We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.
  • We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
  • We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
  • We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
  • We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
  • We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
  • We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
  • We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
  • We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
  • We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
  • We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.
• 

  jgnat

  No, nvr. Reason and skepticism is the foundation of humanism, is it not? It's a search for fundamental truth, which is a noble goal.

  I maintain that the religious concept of giving MORE for no hope of gain goes against nature. It also does great things for our hearts. Who knows why? It defies reason.
• 

  nvrgnbk

  Reason and skepticism is the foundation of humanism, is it not?

  Yes.

  It's a search for fundamental truth, which is a noble goal.

  True.

  I maintain that the religious concept of giving MORE for no hope of gain goes against nature.

  That's where we differ. What's inherently religious about "giving MORE for no hope of gain"?

  goes against nature. Why?

  It also does great things for our hearts.

  Agreed.

  Who knows why?

  Because we're all connected. So when we make something positive happen for another, we are enhanced. When we contribute to the suffering of another, we are diminished. Some might call that religion. I just see it as observable reality.

  It defies reason.

  I think it's perfectly reasonable. Some might even say it's selfish to be altruistic. When we alleviate suffering around us, we create a better environment for ourselves and our offspring.

  By the way, jgnat, I always enjoy the way you express your views, even if we don't agree. I have learned much from you.
• 

  Aleman

  Truth be told, there is and always will be confusion on any religion. Some will take the words of any belief system and try to selfishly twist it to their own benefit for money, power, or even fame. Take the terrorists, for example. In the name of religion they want the power they used to have, so they send the blind and ignorrant of them to blow themselves up with the blind promise of becoming martirs. Take the Catholic church as another example, for years they have ruled most of the world with an iron fist so they can become as rich as they are now. They even have their own country, army, and die hard faithful believers that are willing to kill.

  What's the difference between them and the JW?

  The JW's all are peaceful, followers of the Bible. They mean no harm even thou they are still sinful humans with human mistakes yet very educated and neutral in the things that are worldly, political, or military.

  This is my 5 cents

  -Aleman
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  nvrgnbk

  The JW's all are peaceful, followers of the Bible. They mean no harm even thou they are still sinful humans with human mistakes yet very educated and neutral in the things that are worldly, political, or military.

  There is much good to be said about some of the ideals JWs attempt to follow, Aleman.

  That could be said of many religious and secular groups.

  But the real question is: Are they what they claim to be?

  Are they dedicated to something that's real?

  The same can be asked of many religious persons.

  But the JWs are unique in the promises they hold out to people.

  Why are so many saying as of late, " even if the end doesn't come in my lifetime, it's still a good way to live"?

  This directly contradicts the message that is used to recruit new followers.

  It is never suggested in the ministry that end is possibly far off or that it's impossible to ascertain when it's close.

  The above words are uttered by broken-hearted and disappointed people.

  The leadership/GB wants it both ways.

  They way to perpetually hold the carrot out there, to keep the publishers motivated.

  But when hopes, not hopes of personal invention, but hopes that were presumptuously held out by the organization, go unrealized, the disappointed are criticized for having served with selfish motive.
• 

  R.Crusoe

  Some folks I've linked online with recommend the Tao Te Ching. I have not looked at it yet but hope to. I think and feel like some Buddhist philosophies. An example - they are vegetarian (love of life) but if their people can only survive in regions where meat is necessary then they will sacrifice their principles with God in mind and respect for the animal having unwillingly sacrificed its life for their benefit. This sort of thinking looks for solution and progress in the circumstances you happen to be placed in. It is a mind opening way rather than a controlling. I would not go along with stuff in any religion just because the majority seemed correct. It is a lesson I have learned and it was not good for me!
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  Aleman

  Yes selfish motives! because they are living in the way of this crule and unjust world where everything is fast pace.

  You want to eat now? go to a McDonald's, You want to buy anything at all right now? go to e-bay. You want information now? go to the web. You want money now? get a loan. You want the end to happen now? You'll have to wait until God wants to deliver the evil to the feet of the king Jesus Christ, and people don't get it that things can't happen when they want all the time, which makes them inpatient and selfish.

  But you are not alone! inpatience comes from the man-made governments that teach this to children in schools, and soldiers in the military, and the in every place you look around, you'll notice how billboards try to impliment a skinny body, a muscular man, spend money here spend money there because you need this and you need that!

  These are things that make people become selfish because they say you need this, you deserve that, you can be this, or you can do that! and then all who believe have become apart of this world and in their brainwash of evil. Then they want to be rich, or get implants, or be in debt, or become famous, or a hunter of human beings.

  -Aleman