Question (s) from the newbie

by bite me 39 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    He is so convinced that he is learning the absolute truth.

    There is usually not much to be done in that situation. Many of us have loved ones who refuse to open
    their eyes to the real truth. Keep reading and thinking what tried methods might work for you.

    Some try to discuss doctrine changes and false prophecies of Doomsday in 1914, 1915, 1925, 1975, before
    the 1914 generation passes, in the 20th cntury.

    Some talk about the scandals of the WTS belonging to the United Nations as an NGO (search for it) or
    elder bodies mishandling child abuse cases among the members and the lawsuit recently.

    Some talk of shunning being wrong, some mention the lack of real love among the flock. I used the
    Bethel layoffs extensively with my wife, saying that they are the Bethel Family, and the members are trained
    to care for family, so why did they kick family out with no benefits?

    Some just go about enjoying their own life and finding freedom. The members wonder why.

    Figure out the magic formula and report back to us.

  • bite me
    bite me

    Nice starting points to think about.

    About the false prophecies though, aren't JW's trained to say something on the lines that they are waiting for new light, or the light is getting brighter?

    Scandals of WTS belonging to UN as NGO, not sure what that means, but it sounds interesting!

    Bethal Layoff.. sounds interesting too. Is that something I can find online as well?

    If you, or anyone else has other ideas, let me know!

    Thanks

  • hillbilly
    hillbilly

    Back in the day when I was a "working"JW and we actually "talked" to householders I could run a chain of less than 50 verses and tell you all ya' 'needed to know about being a "true Christian" (tm)

    Someone posted a few years ago that the WT re-cycles about 25-50 verses that defend what they teach.

    About the time I checked out they were scheduling a yearly Bible reading through the Ministry School.

    ~Hill

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    Scandals of WTS belonging to UN as NGO

    http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_the_United_Nations
    http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/ngo.htm
    http://www.jwinfoline.com/Documents/Watchtower_organization/why_was_wt_disassoc_from_un.htm

    Bethel Layoff

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/118394/1.ashx
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/114932/1.ashx
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/116971/1.ashx

    You have much to read, Grasshopper. I enjoy discovering it on my own through Google search
    but a little link help can get you started.

    None of the methods described work on all of the JW's. Some won't listen to anything.
    Still, it's good to educate yourself and slip real facts into the conversation when you can.

  • bite me
    bite me

    I think it is scary to know that I know a lot of the JW's and never been one. I think I became interested their practices because it was different and I did research of my own and thought to myself, how can people believe this stuff.

    It seems to be a form of brain washing. Oh someone mentioned the nodding. I actually saw that one time or another. A couple of JW's came to my door, while one talked the other stood there simply shaking his head yes (as if in agreement) my gosh, if this goes on door to do, I cannot imagine what goes on at a gathering.

    I hope my research pays off someday and I am able to save someone from being pulled in or maybe pull someone out.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    As a regular Christian and a lifetime reader of the bible, I wouldn't say that the Witnesses know their bible all that well. They review favored scriptures over and over. If it doesn't fit in with the Witness agenda, it's skimmed over. I still surprise my JW husband with bible stories he's never heard of.

    Old Testament is preferred over New Testament (aside from Revelation. Love all that doom and destruction).

    Prophecies are preferred over the histories and psalms. Job is favored, Noah, and Lot for their joint miseries. Witnesses love suffering for their faith.

    The book of John is virtually ignored for it's message of love and grace.

  • bite me
    bite me

    hi jgnat ,Please share some of those stories that you surprise your husband with that he has never heard of. Chances are that if he hasn't heard of it, some of my friends may have neither.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Adam and Eve's children got married. Who did they marry? Genesis 5:1...

    Enoch was transported directly to heaven at the end of his earthly time. Genesis 5:24

    After his ordeal, Noah got drunk. One of his sons was banished for making fun of him.Genesis 9:20...

    Abraham, and then later his son, lied about their relationship with their wives when visiting a foreign land. Genesis 12:10...Genesis 26:7...

    Lot wasn't a model Witness. He was greedy, foolish, and in the end, incestuous. His Uncle also once had to rescue him from bandits who had raided the town. That idiot Lot always bothered me. Even after he was captured and released, he still lived in that corrupt town. Genesis 13:8... Genesis 14:14.... Genesis 19...to the end.

    Moses married a "foreigner" and his sister was struck by God for gossipping about it. Numbers 12:1... Moses' father, also a "foreigner", advised him on his government and got him straightened out. Exodus 18:12...

    All the female heroes in the bible are downplayed. We've got a woman Judge, the housewife who drove a stake through the head of Isreal's enemy, David's third wife, and at least three female leaders in the early church. http://www.womeninthebible.net/

    Elijah was transported directly to heaven. 2 Kings 2...

    Job's comforters. The book isn't just about Jehovah's sovereignty, it is also about the futility of false comforters accusing the suffering. Are Witnesses any different in their treatment of the sick? (Book of Job)

    Most Christians evade the bloody bits in the bible. Like the distressed father who quartered his dead raped daughter and displayed her throughout Isreal (Judges 20) or the boys ripped apart by bears. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

    The parable of Lazarus in Heaven and his old tormentor in that "other place", starting at Luke 16:20...

    Jesus conversed with ancient worthies in front of witnesses. Were they spirits? Ghosts? Resurrected flesh? Angelic beings returned to earth? How does this fit in with the Witness doctrine of the Great Wait 'till Paradise? Mark 9:1-8

    Now, a well-versed Witness will politely offer to "research" the answer and get back to you. They will look up the "answer" in their reasoning book. They may or may not come back to you depending on their confidence level at what they've found. Remember, just because they come up with a reason or an explanation, does that reason make sense, in context. Also keep in mind that even if you lay bare their flawed reasoning, their self-deception may remain intact. They could brush off all your comments as those of an "unbeliever" or an "opposer". Be warned, the self deception runs deep.

    If I were to approach a Witness with scriptures like these, I'd probably take the pea shooter approach rather than machine-gun style. Give them something small to chew over. If they are confident enough to come back for another go at you, shoot them again with something small. And so on. A Witness will listen far longer if they perceive you as non-threatening to their faith.

  • CHILD
    CHILD

    jgnat,

    How long has your husband been a JW? Do you observe him reading the bible by itself or only with a book or magazine?

    Don't be surprised to discover many Witnesses already know these stories. I aware of them. Witnesses may not agree with your interpretation of these stories but any JW who's been baptized at least 5 years, attends 5 meetings a week and does personal bible study would know this information. Most people are so busyworking, caring for families, field ministry and preparing for the meetings, I wonder how many read their bible regularly?

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    CHILD: How long has your husband been a JW? Do you observe him reading the bible by itself or only with a book or magazine?

    My husband habitually studies the bible with his study aids. He doesn't read for pleasure.

    CHILD: Don't be surprised to discover many Witnesses already know these stories. I aware of them.

    Yes, but the explanations are very weak on these. They are definitely not highlighted weekly, as Matthew 24 is. The Witnesses, like any religion with a particular slant, have definite favorite scriptures, and others that they squirm from. I've listed some squirmy ones.

    How long have you been a Witness? I find the generational witnesses or those who have been in for twenty years or more have a more solid grounding than the new recruits. The veterans lament the dearth of bible training available to the new ones.

    CHILD: Most people are so busyworking, caring for families, field ministry and preparing for the meetings, I wonder how many read their bible regularly

    I would most definitely agree.

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