FOR DUMMIES: Jehovah Has ALWAYS Used an Organization. Not!!

by Open mind 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  WTWizard

  If you are to believe what the Tower says, the Catholic church is part of Satan's organization. And so are the Protestants. So those organizations would not be Jehovah's. In fact, since about 100 AD when the original Christian congregation fizzled, there was no organization that would possibly have been Jehovah's true organization.

  Even more interesting is the kind of people that the Tower claims as likely candidates for the "heavenly hope" during that period. Every single one of them was an independent thinker! Some were trying to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. The composers of the King James version, which today is the gold standard, were supposedly in that class though the Tower claims it full of errors that were put there to support false religion.

  And what about the scientists? Copernicus, Galileo, and Newton are among those who the Tower claims probably had the heavenly hope. All three challenged the Establishment and are now accepted as founders of truths in science (and yet Einstein and Linus Pauling were not in the heavenly class??). All three were the type of people that, had they been in the Tower today, would likely have turned apostate and sought the real truth. As for those trying to spread the Bible to the common people, they were the Raymond Franzes of the Catholic Church (which had them burned to the stake for it).

  The original Bible translators that sought to bring the Bible to the masses were in the heavenly class, yet Raymond Franz (who did effectively the same thing) is a wicked apostate that is spreading poison. What sense does that make? The only difference is that Franz did his apostasy while there was an organization, and the Bible translators did theirs when there was none. Divine justice??
• 

  jwfacts

  You have made it nice and simple.

  On top of what you say, even when Jehovah was dealing actively with the Jews, it was still two organizations for much of the time - the 2 tribes and the 10 tribes.

  It is very common for a JW to say to a fading JW - you are either part of Jehovah's org or Satans. Yet such a statement is Watchtower loaded language. The Bible never uses the word Organization. That is why I like to refer now to the Watchtower Corporation whenever speaking to JW's, just to try to trip their minds out of the cult state.
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  MadTiger

  Very good thread.
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  greendawn

  Whether there was an organisation or not there certainly never was anything in the form of the current dub organisation with all authority and all doctrine formulation centralised in the hands of a few people.
• 

  Terry

  The main fallacy about worship within either Judaism or Christianity is that they are a single entity.

  Both Judaism and Christianity have never (ever) been that. Judaism was many (different) interpretations and practices by different groups hostile to each other.

  Christianity evolved slowly and at bitter odds with its own constituency. Even while Jesus was with his select few they argued with each other about everything.

  The first order of business for the soon-to-be Christian sympathizer/emperor Constantine was to create some kind of unity among Jesus believers.

  Constantine used the power of his political office to force a creed and loyalty test by inventing an orthodoxy.

  Christians were as motivated to persecute each other as the pagan emperors had been. There were riots, burnings, beatings and mayhem among christian groups. Book burnings, accusations of apostacy and banishments were the rule and not the exception.

  Christianity was always LOCAL OPINION.

  Catholic Christianity was rule by force, threat and fiat.

  Protestantism unleashed the furious hatred of those professing christianity upon their fellow believers who disagreed with them.

  Kingdoms rose and fell in contention about "true" faith within christian orthodoxies.

  The Dark Ages were the years in which human progress ground to a virtual halt in anticipation of the 2nd coming of Jesus to straighten out the mess the world was in due to reliance upon heaven rather than man's own intelligent self-betterment.

  The Renaissance marked the end of a Christian-dominated thinking and the emergence of man's ingenuity, rational curiousity and science.

  If Jehovah has always used an organization upon earth it has always failed to produce anything but backward superstition, suspicions, animosity and blind and insular stagnation.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are among the more backward christianity-professing groups both socially, economically and educationally. They are among the least charitable and most prone to reactionary obstinancy while claiming to be enlightened.

  The fruits of the JW Organization have been false hopes, false predictions and repeated demonstrations of ignorant policies for its membership.

  Don't bother denying the legitimacy of the One True Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. Instead, ask why its true believers lead such miserable, tiny, impoverished lives of despondency and fear.

  The proof of this pudding is in the sour aftertaste.
• 

  carla

  "I have ALWAYS been a JW."

  You been talking to my jw? That is exactly what he has said many times!! haha,until I point out that, no dear you are in the middle half of your life now (when he became a jw) and previous you believed x,y & z which are in direct contradiction to jw doctrine therefore you were not a jw. Scary thing when he believes his own lies until they are pointed out to him.
• 

  stillajwexelder

  AND SCRIPTURALLY

  (Exodus

  3:11-15) "11 However, Moses said to the [true] God: "Who am I that I should go to Phar´aoh and that I have to bring the sons of Israel out of Egypt?" 12 To this he said: "Because I shall prove to be with you, and this is the sign for you that it is I who have sent you: After you have brought the people out of Egypt, YOU people will serve the [true] God on this mountain." 13 Nevertheless, Moses said to the [true] God: "Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them, ‘The God of YOUR forefathers has sent me to YOU,’ and they do say to me, ‘What is his name?’ What shall I say to them?"14 At this God said to Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE." And he added: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.’" 15 Then God said once more to Moses: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation."

  Note Jah had to tell Moses who the Israel God was - so he was not using an organization prior to this
• 

  Open mind

  Great points everyone!
  
  When I had my little "light bulb" ephiphany for this post I was thinking, "Hey let's just say 'You're right JWs. Now let's do the math and see what kind of percentages we come up with'."
  
  As some of you have admirably pointed out, a strong argument can be made that Jehovah has used an Organization for "ZERO PERCENT" human history.
  
  I think it's a good habit to regularly try seeing things from the viewpoint of other people though. Particularly JWs since I'm still working on several of them.
  
  (Everyone might want to look the other way for this next paragraph.)
  
  I'll give one last little unashamed kiss to the posterior of Farkel: I'd sure love to see you throw together a little morsel for us Doug. Just peruse the last year's worth of material here. There's plenty of wacky "new light" twists and turns from Brooklyn that have "Farkel Fodder" written all over them.
  
  OK, everybody, you can look now. My sycophantic task is done.
  
  Open Mind
• 

  RebelWife

  The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, JW's say, so it must be false. Someone show me the word 'organization' in the Bible.

  Really good point. Useless, of course, but a great point nonetheless.
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  RebelWife

  I asked my husband who God used before Russell. He gave me some lame-a$$ generalized sort-of answer. Told him I wanted a specific answer. Got the must-ask-elder response. I've been waiting three or four years now.