The fade is over, talked to my parents last night. (very very long) (page 7)

mentalclearness

Wow..I'm very impressed with many people's courage to talk with their parents so forthright about doctrinal issues that are wrong. When I spoke with my family I just basically stated that I didn't believe this was God's approved organization on earth. I didn't get into the doctrines, just said there was absolutely no difference with other organized religions claiming the same thing. I could not be a part of something I didn't believe. It was much milder than your conversation for sure. But I'm hoping baby steps...little by little....One thing at a time. What I've noticed myself is that unless there is some sort of disappointment with the organization on a more human level, they will never question or research doctrine. Many actually believe, that although things may not be correct, it's still the best way to live your life right now..Of course, they really don't know any other alternative, and most won't consider it even. So I'm hoping in my family they will continue to get discouraged with the way people are mistreated in the congregation and big mistakes are made in judgement. My family is probably alot like your in that they are very balanced naturally good people and are turned off by injustice. I hope that is what will make them rethink their religion.....

nvrgnbk

It's good to be honest with our parents.

Look at purps' mother.

One never knows.

Glad to know you, Para and bobbi.

Vinny

Para said:..."It was infuriating. I felt like a was playing tennis and delivering perfect shot after perfect shot, but rather than try to volley them back, they just were standing there remarking on what a great shot it was, then giving themselves a point for the loss."

ESTEE

Your story has really touched my heart, Para . . . I’m glad you shared it here on JWD.
Your comment about feeling you “attacking with a sponge” reminded me how the dubs use the Reasoning book to rehearse standard rebuttals to every objection imaginable. Above all else, they “always must persevere,” their “faith is being tested” or they are “being persecuted,” etc.

Regarding the UN Scandal, I haven’t been to a meeting in a very long time, suffice to say, this scandal was undoubtedly handled from the platform with standard answers and disclaimers made to discredit anyone speaking about the UN scandal. “Some Apostate musta got to them.”

When it came to the child abuse lawsuits, again they would have a standard answer. Cult members for the most part want someone to “solve the problem” for them. They are conditioned to accept the spoon feeding. So they readily accept any answer, and the more simplistic, the better. How much simpler could it be than this: “the Society addressed it.” Same as “God has spoken.”

As for the flipflops and changing doctrines such as the 607 and 1914 teaching; and flipflops like the blood policy, perhaps the Society’s changes portray the entire WT organization as being a bunch of Apostates! Interesting that your mother stated her doubts. Like you gave her license to do so. Very nice. Looking back on my own situation, I now shake my head at how sure I was that the society was Gawd’s instrument and how strongly I believed Gawd ran the show from Brooklyn. Laughable now, but all part of the brainwash. If your mom has doubts, then she is starting to see the cracks in the foundation. There is a chance she will leave, too. You are opening the door for her, Para! Good work!

The Society has a remarkable cover-up propaganda to whitewash over any wrong a member may have committed using the one remark on how Jehovah would judge them. This blind obedience merely shows how deep the indoctrination process goes.

As far as disassociating . . . the elders would like nothing more than for one to follow all their borg rules. If you feel no need to go there, that is a stroke in your favor. I am quite sure that once you communicated in any way with the elders, they “read” into your comments and will make an issue of it. Furthermore, if the congregation made an announcement, then all of a sudden you would, like you say, "be pronounced wicked." Any dub worth his weight in salt would be too scared to dispute the pronouncement made from the platform about a member. One little well-placed comment about the possibility of Apostate influence and the pronouncement would become law.

To comment further on your quote: “If the congregation made an announcement, then all of a sudden I would become wicked.” Yes, the borg puts themselves in judgment of anyone and everyone who breaks any borg rule. My best advice is to stay well clear of any type of communication with any elders from this point forward.

All of these “technicalities” about jw worship has been heard from the platform (parents wicked, but children still innocent). These are words of judgment. Speak to the WT about Unconditional Love, though—is that a concept they have ever heard of?

Your mom swearing . . . LOL.(Getting a visual of an elder’s wife in swear-mode.)Seems to me your mom has been put in a position outside of her comfort zone. One where she might choose to make a decision to leave, also, with or without your dad. Interesting.

Two organizations on earth, Jehovah's and Satan's, black and white, good and evil --- oh the duality of life. It would be so nice if people could see shades of grey or even color where religion and belief is concerned, what a concept! There would be a whole lot more open minds around!

Your father can’t believe the borg just won't let people walk away? “So long as you don't say you want to leave the organization in front of two witnesses, there's nothing they can do.” . . . Well Yay! Perhaps your father is speaking from his own secret thoughts of how to fade!?

Absolutely Gawd doesn't want families to be apart—and you indeed are the same person as always. Men in bethel can’t dictate who your parents can love—men who don’t even know your parents—or you! How dare they make judgments! Reminds me of a scripture about judgment being reciprocated accordingly.

This thread is full of good news, Para! I’m really proud of you for the way you handled yourself! Thanks for sharing because this could help others on this forum. I believe communication with our loved ones is important even if it hurts them. Being true to yourself is most important, I figure. When I left dubland, my adult daughter phoned me and begged me to “come back.” But I couldn’t. Her wish for me to come back was unrealistic. I had to be true to myself first.

*hugs*

ESTEE

PEC

Congrats, Para and Bobbi.

Philip

TheListener

Para, you've got balls of steel and I salute you sir.

You did something that very few individuals have the stomach for.

I wish you and Bobbi all the best.

BTW, my wife plays tennis the same way your parents do.

sass_my_frass

Beautiful work Para, congratulations to you and Bobbi and the kids too. Hopefully soon it will feel like a relief that you're not having to tiptoe around this thing. In time you'll realise that it's not a big thing. It always will be to your parents, but you guys will just be living and getting on with being happy.

It probably isn't over yet. They've got to get over the shock, think some things through, work their way through the problems you pointed out, and then think about how this will affect the family. Clearly their conscience doesn't demand that they be the ones to turn you in. That says a lot about their integrity towards you. You may have a series of negotiations ahead, but that's okay now, right?

You've got to accept that there was never going to be a solution that left everybody happy and free. There's going to be weirdness for a while. Take control of your life and protect yourselves. This may not be a good time, but sometime you'll need to think about how you'd handle the grandkid issue if the cong kicked you out. Don't play the game. If you're not family, neither are the kids. You're not in any way banning them from seeing the kids, you're only insisting that you're there as well. That's how a family works - they don't get to choose who to keep.

I'm interested too in what you dad means by his being proud of you. I got that from my folks when I was going to talk to the elders. Is he proud because he thinks you're about to take some kind of bullet?

Hi Bobbi, good to see you again, I hope you're okay!

Gayle

Wow! You have my respect in how you handled this. You showed such honesty & respect in a difficult balance. I so hope your parents with time will be able to sort thru this and yet maintain your relationship and with the grandkids for your parent's sake. As these older folks age most will see the organization will not be there for them the way their children and grandchildren would be. I look forward to updates. Best wishes to you and your family.

Honesty

(((((para)))))

You stuck to your guns about association with the grandkids.

Grandkids make a lot of difference when the rents discover that if they want to talk with the grandkids they have to talk with the kids too.

He then went on to tell us that our cards are lost, even if they wanted to disfellowship us, they would have a hard time.

I would venture to guess that your dad has known this was coming for awhile and took appropriate measures to insure that the fallout will be minimal on the family.

Who knows, a friend got over 30 of his family members out of the cult before he was DF'd for apostasy.

anewme

Para, good job! I like your parents and hope their love for you, your wife and kids helps them to act with loyal love for their family and not the Brooklyn Bachelors.

The fade is over, talked to my parents last night. (very very long)

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