How good of a debater are you?
I was recently reading some old threads on JWD back in the days when a poster named "YouKnow" was here. (2002) He would stand toe-to-toe (or at least he thought he did) with the likes of AlanF, refiners fire, seven006, and many others. He really knew how to push the JW "hot buttons" and would rarely concede anything to his opposers. Don't get me wrong, I think the posters here handed him his head on a platter with brutal regularity and it has been both educational and entertaining to read.
But I'm not that good at debate myself. I have a feeling that if confronted with a hardcore, in-your-face apologist like "YouKnow" that a neutral 3rd party observer might say he won. I tend to "freeze up" when put on the spot and even occasionally find myself going along with a line of JW "reasoning" that a part of my brain knoww is pure, unadulterated, horse puckey.
So..........
How do you think you'd do in a one-on-one live conversation with someone like "YouKnow"? Be honest. Do you think the right JW Elder could manipulate you if it was just the two of you?
Also, any suggestions for improving in the arena of verbal jousting would be appreciated.
Open Mind
p.s. Here's a sample of the kind of fear and guilt "button pushing" YouKnow was famous for if you really want a flavor for how gung-ho he was.
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You Know said:
"I am glad that you want to play the peacemaker. That's a good thing. But, the hard reality is that there can be no agreement between Jehovah's Witnesses and those who are apostate Jehovah's Witnesses.
One of the most basic fundamental spiritual truths that one must accept in order to make sense of all this, is that there is a universal controversy that exists in the spirit realm. The controversy I am referring to is between Jehovah God and Satan the Devil.
The book of Genesis reveals that the schism originally developed in the Garden of Eden and has resulted in dividing angels and humans into two seperate camps. If you are familiar with the life of Jesus, you know that he had many confrontations with the Jews and their religious clergymen. The Pharisees were bitterly opposed to Jesus and they spared no effort in trying to entrap him and accuse him before the people. They slandered and reviled him and in the end you know what happened to Jesus. The reason though for such hostility only makes sense in the light of what Jesus said at John 8:44. He asked his opposers why they couldn't listen to him, and he answered his own question by saying: "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." Interestingly, down a few verses, the Jews responded that Jesus was demon possessed.
So, think about that. Here the Son of God comes along and pulls the mask off of Satan and reveals quite a bit about Satan's character and his tactics, as well as his origin. Yet, the Jews accuse Jesus of being the evil one who is possessed by demons! Could anything be more perverse then saying that Jesus was demon possessed? It would not seem so. Jesus warned those of his disciples though that they could expect similar treatment when he told them: 'If they have called the master the Devil, what are they going to call you?'
The point though is that there are these two opposed spiritual forces in the heavenly realm and that the enmity in heaven is reflected down here in various ways. Jesus further revealed that the Devil is really the unseen ruler of this world. That's why it is so messed up. That's why there are so many murders, because the god of this world is a murderer. That's why the world is full of liars and cheats and thieves and con men of every sort because the ruler of this world is a liar and a fraud and his spirit permeates society thru and thru.
Jehovah's Witnesses have been instrummental in teaching the truth about Jehovah and Satan just like Jesus did. Unlike Jesus, though, we have made plenty of mistakes. At Revelation the 12 chapter Satan is called the "accuser of our brothers." But, we shouldn't imagine that Satan's accusation against God's servants are entirely false. The point is: The accusations of XJW's against their former brothers can only be understood in light of Satan's own accusations against us. Apostate JW's are under the Devil's malevolent spirit just like those Jews who found fault wiht Jesus. According to 2 Peter 2:2, referring to those who are apostates, it says: "And on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively." The XJW'S on this board hope they can poison your mind in order to keep you from knowing the truth. That's what is going on here. / You Know"
And here is one of many good rebuttals. This one was from refiners fire:
"Great argument You Know.
Just one problem, I have heard Seventh Day Adventists, and Mormons use the same arguement to explain the activities of opposers.
Thus it does not explain the battle between light and dark,the great Universal "controversy" as Ellen G White called it, but is a convenient arguement used by Totalitarian churches to explain the activities of former members who now oppose.
If this proves we apostates here are of our father the Devil, then anyone who opposes any church he formerly was a member of is of the Devil."
here's the link if you feel like wading through the whole thing. Turns out this particular thread was started by a troll. But it was still a good thread, IMO.