Do you really want to save us?

by nvrgnbk 77 Replies latest jw friends

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007

    I rang God {prayer} the other day, and got this message: "Hi this is God, I'm in my rest day at the moment but if you leave a message I'll get back to you with-in the next 1,000 year period, thanks, God bless! Can you belive that! Take my word for it, this really happened!

    So I rang Jesus, but Peter answers the phone and denys 3 times that Jesus is home...I know he's lying!

    I called the Devil and he invited me to a Barbeque....MMmmm nice. I can almost smell the meat cooking. He said I don't have to bring anything, just myself. Nice guy!

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Nvr - Jesus was pretty unorthodox too!

  • Awakened07

    OK - I thought it would be fun if I could play the Dev... ...erm... God's advocate for once. So let me try to convince you to believe:

    • Look around you. Life is so complicated, intricate and beautiful that there has to be a loving Creator.
    • Now that we've established that, what Creator should you believe in? Well, the answer is obvious; you should believe in the one true God.
    • Now that we've established that, how do we find out who is the one true God? We go to the only ancient scripture that makes any sense.
    • Now that we've established that - what scripture would that be? Well, Hindu Vedas are completely bonkers, Buddhism is without God, Islam came after the Bible... Ooh! I just said it! The Bible.
    • Now that we've established that, why should you believe in the Bible? Because it says the earth is a globe hanging in space (it's true!), it tells of the hydrological cycle and it has intricate prophecies that have all come true.
    • Now that we've established that, what does the Bible tell you to do? To have faith in God for some of the above reasons, and believe that Jesus died for you sins. It would be great if you also preached this to others, but you don't have to.
    • If the above fails, all you have to do is ask Jesus in prayer to reveal himself and put himself in your heart, and it will happen if you have enough faith.

    There. Are you saved yet? If not, you should pray more, and have more faith based on the above points.

  • Blueblades

    NVR, I'm with you on this one. Two things come to my mind, one is that there are believers who believe that the Bible is from God. Secondly, believers believe that they have had a personal experience of some kind or another. My conclusion is that it is very hard for the believers to convince you by quoting the Bible or sharing their personal expience with you or me. That leaves blind faith, something that you and I and many others can't accept.

    When I wrote to Raymond Franz on the question of the Bible being inspired of God, his bottom line response to me was, it is a matter of faith. He based that on his life experiences.

    Utimately, each and every one of us will have to make up our own minds in these matters. Someone else's belief and experiences are theirs alone and they cannot save you.


  • nvrgnbk

    I'm feeling more and more clarity all the time.

    You've been an enormous help, Awakened07.

    You too, Witness 007.

    Are you guys related.

    Hey wait a minute.

    You're not Christians!

    Sad emo and AO, you guys rock!

  • AlphaOmega
    Sad emo and AO, you guys rock!

    "Christian Rock"... that makes me think of an excellent episode of South Park


  • journey-on
    Where is the lovely herbiscuitsareonfire when we need her?

    Duh, Nvr, it's Sunday....where do you think she is? She'll respond. Just give her time.

    You know where I stand on your question. We've had discussions before. I don't fit in on either side. I'm reading The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle and his concept of God is more like mine.

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007

    I'm actually Satan and Awaken 07 is my son Lucifer...we post here too..we are Ex-Witnesses from way back.

  • tfjw

    Isn't "salvation" over rated? and who defines exactly what it is?

  • serotonin_wraith

    I can understand when the religious say their experiences are from god, and they are for them alone, so personal testimonies won't change the minds of others, but I wonder if any of them question why they were granted the experience while others (such as myself) have none. We are given no 'reason' to believe, no glimpse into God's mysterious ways, no shred of evidence or anything to start believing in God. It does seem to me as though if there is a god, he's decided I am not worthy, and so he won't try to save me by giving me a personal experience. That can't be because I'm a bad person, because I feel I act better than a lot of people who say they have had personal experiences. When they say women aren't as good as men or homosexuals are sinning, my mind cannot accept that. My mind just isn't capable of seeing those remarks as anything but disgusting. If there is a god, I feel I've been set up to fail.


    • Look around you. Life is so complicated, intricate and beautiful that there has to be a loving Creator.

    I'll answer this, because you need to learn that there is no proof you can offer to show a god exists. Life is so complicated and intricate because it started out simple, and over millions of years became more complex with tiny changes. Even if we don't accept that, it doesn't take too much thinking to realise the being that did it would have to be even more complicated and intricate. Where is His designer? If he needs none, because he is eternal, then why can't the Universe be eternal, and these complicated life forms we see be a natural part of that? Afterall, we know the Universe exists because we have evidence of it. There is no evidence for a god.

    Your other points can be picked apart too, but there's no need as I've already answered the first one.

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