Were You Treated Unfairly In The Congregation?

by minimus 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • flipper
    flipper

    Minimus- In a way, yes I was treated unfairly in the opposite view of what you are saying. Early on, because of being a prominent elders son (dad was city overseer for 30 years ), I would get to give public talks traveling to different congregations,as a 20 to 25 year old ministerial servant and get picked for assembly parts, just because of flying in on the coatails of the family name I came from. I felt badly for those brothers who worked for years and did not get to have assembly parts and more privileges. In part, seeing these incongruities caused me to have serious doubts about the fairness of things as I got in my 30's. So I stopped trying so hard, then felt more compassion and fellow feeling for my brothers and sisters, more like a normal human.

    Also, later on in my 40's when married to an unbeliever, I really felt the scathing snooty-nose look down from the congregation members. It truly is sad. But I learned to rise above such ignorance. I got out of the org. Now I'm happy

  • minimus
    minimus

    007, where do you live? In Appalachia?

  • minimus
    minimus

    Mr. Flipper, that's an interesting perspective. Our family name was well known also and I remember how it was simply "expected" that I would be a regular pioneer as soon as I got out of school. One elder asked me if I "was going to carry on the family tradition". This irritated me because I was expected to do everything perfectly because of my family.

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Witness oo7. I am sorry if my fellow white men gave you some bad vibes.

    My first reaction to your comment is, when I was a witness, I felt a pressure to try to fit in. I was trying to make the religion my life and I thought God was involved with the religion. If I was not socially involved, every weekend I felt a hole in my soul. There were deffinitely clicks and the clicks in my case had nothing to do with race.

    I was a pioneer and ministerial servant, I gave a lot of talks I married into a very popular large Italian family, Still I wasnt invited to everything and it bugged me. Everybody doesnt get invited to everything, unless its the congregation picnic which back in the 70's they would announce from the stage.

    When I left the Tower in 83, It was a great relief to become Los Lobos and come and go where and when I pleased. I do not depend on others to entertain me or validate my exhistence. I probably go to the opposite extreme in avoiding people. I've been out since 83 and I am invited to a Witnoid get together today that I am dreading, I'm going as a curtousey to my wife who has been out since 93. The get together is at her sisters who is a witnoid.

    We had a black couple in our congregation back in 75. My congregation was 100% white in a racist part of Cleveland in an era very close to the days of segregation. What I saw was our congregation embraced that couple and they were at all of the get togethers and activities and more than I was at.

    Still I remember, if I wasnt invited to everything, and I wasnt. It bugged me. I just realized from my days in school that I want invited to everything in the world and I wasnt invited to everything in the troof. I didnt know why I wasnt invited to everything. If I was black, I guess I might have thought that was why. I just realized everybody wasnt invited to everything. For a while I became friends with another witness couple and we would get together regularly, dinner, cards, drink. Between my personal friends and marrying into a popular Italian family with 8 witness children, I realized no one was invited to everything. But when I wasnt invited it still bugged me very much.

    My comment on you hearing brothers making racist remarks while working backstage at an assembly is this. I work in a jail, with a lot of people that are not white. A lot of them use racist terms among themselves and towards everyone else. It's not right. But its reality. I dont use racist language. I have seen Black officers call other black officers the N word and they got fired for it. But thats among us officers. Amongst the civilian population the N word is rampant. Just listen to hip hop, its based on words that rhyme with bitch and the N word. If young white people hear black people call each other racist words, maybe they think they can do it also. It would be nice if no one ever offended anyone else, but its not that way. When I was a young white person in the 60's white people used derogatory terminology towards all white men. They called the Italians Wops and Dagos, The Germans, Krauts. The Russians Commareds, The Eastern Europeans DP's The Irish, Mics and drunks. The Polish, Polocks, White Americans from West Virginia, Hill Billies on and on. Southern white people are called crackers. And If a black man happend on the scene I dont think he was exempted.

    Age, maturity and upbringing would have a bearing on what comes out of ones mouth.

    All in all I am very happy, most happy to be removed from the politics of the JW congregation to me it wasnt natural or comfortable. Personally I have gotten my satisfaction from doing things in life, not from going out to dinner or spending the evening with religiously confused people. By doing things, I mean in my younger days, I would join sports teams, baseball, soccer, volleyball and I played in musical groups. Those kind of activities kept me busy and seemed natural to me. If your not athletic or musical do whatever you are. I think you are older so you probably have figured this out for yourself.

  • shell69
    shell69

    Yeah; although our cong was not really troubled by maybe 'racist related divisions' (for want of a better expression, there were deffinatley cliques.

    The regular pioneers associated v closely with the more active and central elders and thier families. all one big happy family, that is unless you werent a reg pioneer of an elder.

    I found being a mother to four younsters placed me pretty much out of any circle, I was'nt spiritual enought to wait until the paradise to have my children; there I didn't sacrifice enough time to the fs, I didnt have maybe as much materially as others, coz the kiddies cost so much, I didn's answer up at all the meeting coz I was either messing with the children, or WORSE!!, I hadn't prepared coz the only little bit of spare time I had was spent having a ten minute nap!

    A hiding to nothing.... I Can add more, will later

    SHELL

  • minimus
    minimus

    It's hard to "get in the circle", isn't it?

  • mentalclearness
    mentalclearness

    I noticed many congregations I went to had cliques. I really didn't fit in any of them, but I wasn't to upset about it. I always was pretty busy with my family friends and a few good friends that I have managed to keep until today. I notice there were many cliques that were based on rank (pioneers, bethelites, co's, elders)

  • Sarah Smiles
    Sarah Smiles

    Could you apply what you wrote to any religion, work, or volunteer group?

    I know that the few elders up at the top controls the minds set of the other elders so everyone falls below the list of the shinning stars!

    Well I just had to re-read what others wrote and sadly to say it is all so true. But they would just blame the whole thing on how imperfect men are.

    I have black friends and they have expressed their concernes about an individual elder's prejudice during weekly WT. Last week, the overseer conductor has made jokes that are racial slurrs so that others would not notice and the conductor would look at black individuals so would the congregation as they foolishly laughed. I always think that people are parnoid and it did not happen, but I guess this could be true! I do not attend so I can not say.

    As far as my life, I know big families were looked down on by elders at the Kingdom Hall. I know that my friend, divorced woman, raised her family on welfare and she was looked down on for seeking long term assistance. Now welfare seems to be the norm but I think the working class still shuns the poor.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    What I can say, the point of being poorly esteemed due to not having other family members in the JWs was very true where I was attending. That's one reason why I wanted to leave the JWs from early on, social life among them was virtually impossible.

    In a neighbouring congo all the youths had their peer groups that were impossible to penetrate.

  • MadTiger
    MadTiger

    I won't recap everything.

    There is an old blues song -- "Why Am I Treated So Bad?"

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