They all used to blame the stopped up toilets on the Spanish but nobody really knew that in Mexico that nobody flushes paper and stuff as the pipes are usually 2 inch pipes (and clog easily) and not the 4 inch standard so it was the whities who probably did it.
Were You Treated Unfairly In The Congregation?
yeah definitely. not because of the categories you put up though. i was reprimanded and since then people slandered my name for years. when i was in the french congregation in new york/ the native french were at the top, then americans who spoke perfect french were next, then the haitians who spoke perfect french, then the africans, then the americans who spoke bad french, then the haitians who spoke bad french.actually it was even more subtle if your french had all the cool parigian expressions you were top, whereas the haitians were bottom because they spoke it in a caribbean way.The native french spoke that way naturally so the cool ones didn't even care(i'm in this category-am belgian though), the snooty ones loved the hierarchy. it was sad when americans or haitian people tried to speak with typical french sayings. it was so phony and i felt bad they felt they had to do that.:(
I was in California and didn't see any racial divisions, I think it was a bit more liberal out there. But there was a pecking order as far as the other things mentioned, family ties, pioneers, elders. I had a Disfellowshiped mate, my children would'nt go to meetings (they were much smarter than me!) , and I had a professional job, and was irregular in meeting and service ( I had health problems). I might as well have been inivisible. A few sisters would talk to me, but that was about it. I might as well have been disfellowshiped. No social life whatsover. It was pretty lonely, as my marriage was bad too.
one other thing, don't be young and good looking and single or they'll assume you're fucking everything with a hole in it...but as i look back it was just jealously from short, angry elders.
young, good looking and married? please breed for us so we get some more pretties to sucker more into the cult.
When I first left my abusive JW husband I continued to attend meetings. Talk about treated unfairly. Because I had 'no grounds' for leaving him I was the constant butt of elders visits and the pariah of the gossipy sisters. Although before the separation we were accasionally asked to dinner, following it I was fortunate if I had a single sole speak to me at the meetings. This is just one example I have many more where my children were left out of social activities but will concentrate on this one. The final straw.
I recall sitting at a bookstudy with the two sisters who studied with my preteen daughters in attendance. The WHOLE group was discussing transport, times etc for the public holiday (christmas day) picnic they had planned. My girls looked at me with excitement anticipating a lovely day out by the beach ( my husband did not let me have the car) I was completely ignored and since we were obviously not 'included' after a few minutes we left. The sisters studying with my girls did not call or arrange to take them. A week later EXACTLY the same thing happened in regard to the New Years Day public holiday. My children were going to be segregated because of my decision to leave my violent husband!?! That public holiday I accepted an invitation to a BBQ from some worldy neighbours, something that went against my conscience mind you but I was so lonely. That was the beginning of the end. Bad associations spoil useful habits...THEY WERE RIGHT!!!
I was disfellowshipped a few weeks later. They were sooo looking for an excuse to get rid of me.
The turmoil inside me was indescribable, until now and finding your group. I think you all would understand.
During visits from the elders after leaving my husband one said to me, "since you no longer have a husband then we will have to be your husband for you and make your decisions as you are incapable." No lie. They were his exact words. Embedded in my mind up to this day. I felt lost and incapable that is true, I had lived at home until 18 when I married and I had never been alone, but to be told that in such a way just shows their opinion of women.
While on this topic, much of my ex husbands frustration (which he took out on me) came from not being able to climb the ladder in the congregation. He was still only doing 'mikes' at 28 years old. Oh my dear. His peers were ministerial servants or had parts in running the meetings! He couldnt see it was because he didnt have the connections required to move up. We had moved around a bit as that is what violent abusive men do. They move on to ensure their wife doesn't get too friendly with anyone and possible confide in them.
Anyway, I have gone on a bit too much. The simple answer is YES, I have been treated unfairly in the congreagation! I guess I feel I have found somewhere to vent after 20 years so there is a bit of a build up!
Warm hugs to all and thanks for the welcomes.
oh and the "corpse" bit in my moniker is because I feel dead inside.
After reading these replies I can't imagine what keeps my mother in. She was married to an unbeliever, 2 of her children are DF'd, 1 is DA'd and the other 2 never bought into the crap. What does she do lay down at the front door like a door mat so everyone can wipe thier feet off on her before they enter the KH?
I forgot where I got this:
Ever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented? To say that Jesus said his followers should all be on equal footing, it's incredible how much the R&F Witness is NOT on equal footing. The social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:
1. At the top of the Social Order of Things within the congregation, is of course, the Presiding Overseer and his family. The wife is considered the First Lady and she knows absolutely everything that is going on in the congregation, except for the fact that her teenage son is doing drugs and masturbating 6 times a day, and that her daughter has a second wardrobe at school that resembles a hooker walking the Champs Elysees on New Year's Eve. She doesn't work outside of the home but she does go out in Service every Wednesday morning and possibly even some Tuesdays where she prays to Jehovah that whoever is taking the group doesn't stick her with anyone who's not in her clique or that single mother who misses half the meetings because she has to work three jobs to support her family.
2. Next are the other elders and their families looming near the top. The brothers are usually a bunch of borderline alcoholics who don't really like their wives that much because they're always bugging them to make more money so that they can have the very latest in clothing and home furnishing, even though their credit cards are gasping for air. Some of their wives work, some don't. It depends on how much money their husbands managed to screw their worldly siblings out of when the parents died. Those that don't work outside the home might get together once a week for a "power breakfast" where they sit there for 3 hours and gossip about the other elder's wives who aren't there. None of them really like each other and they've been real lifeDesperate Housewives long before the series took off. At least half of them are either bulimic or a bunch of drunks...I mean "social drinkers". They're tired of having sex with their husbands but would cut his balls off in an instant if he even thinks about another woman. Their Visa cards are racked up to the max, but it's worth it to have another woman's envy.
3. Then come the wannabees and kiss asses. These are usually those that want to be an MS because they KNOW how to handle the mikes god damn it, and they really feel that they can move on to bigger and better things. They go out in Service all the time just to show how spiritual they are, and they ask those in higher positions what their opinion is on EVERYTHING from mowing the lawn to oral sex. This shows that they will do as they're told and that they are already practicing Elder Worship, a definite boost in climbing the social ladder. Generally speaking, these wannabees were laughed at in school and at their present jobs where their co-workers think they're nuts. They want a "position" where they can finally look down on everyone else, and find out the dirt on others in the Hall too by getting access to everyone's personnel files. They are at every single meeting.
4. Pioneer sisters. This is the only way for a single sister to have any sort of social prominence in the congregation and is a good excuse not to have to work full time. It also helps if you develop either fibromyalga or chronic fatigue syndrome; that way, you can get a disability cheque every month so you don't have to work at all! Pioneering is also a good way to try and land a husband. Your position also means that you will get invited out to people's homes for supper because they feel sorry that you're still single and glad that you don't have enough brains to go get a real job.
5. Rank & File Family. This is the area that varies the most. The husband works full time and if necessary, so does the wife. They attend most meetings just to keep the elders off their backs but secretly feel like telling them to piss off. The mother is told what rotten, uncontrollable children she has and the father is constantly questioned as to why he doesn't keep up with getting his 10 hours in Service every month. Doesn't hewant to advance in Jehovah's Organization?? Why can't he control his wife and kids?? The wife is councelled that perhaps she should quit her job and spend more time watching her children, so that her daughter doesn't come home pregnant by some worldly boy. The R&F Family are invited out on an average of one or maybe two times every two months.
6. The Inbetweens. This group borders on being low-lives, unless you can make a friend with someone higher up on the scale. It'll mean kissing their asses and dishing out compliments every 3 seconds, but it's the only way you can improve your social standing. Although you invite them over for supper on a continual basis, they usually will find some excuse not to come, unless there are going to be other cool people there as well. Be warned though, you'll have to bite your tongue with their 10 year old kid punches your 5 year old in the stomach, because telling people their kids are rotten brats, will get you kicked to the bottom of the spiritual food chain in the twinkling of an eye.
7. Slackers, Single Parents and Non-Pioneering Welfare Families. These people are the lowest of the low. Missing meetings on a regular basis makes you more invisible than Jesus' Return in 1914. In fact, everyone else in the congregation looks down on you and will generally avoid you like the Plague unless they are unfortunate enough to have you as a Householder one night, or unless the CO is due for a visit. In that case, you might get a "shepperding call" from the elders just so they can tell the CO that you're a slacker and a loser and to cover their own ass. No one will offer to invite you over for dinner because you or one of your kids might steal something out of their house. No one wants to sit close to you at any of the meetings, and will never think to call you unless it's to invite you to a bridal shower that they're having a hard time getting anyone else to come to. Pioneering is a waste of your time and effort. There is no point in you even trying harder, because everyone knows that Jehovah does not want losers like you in the New System.
The qualifications for being an MS are as follows:
- No education beyond High School. If the congregation is really desperate, they might consider someone who has some community college education, but this would be really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
- You must have brown eyes, a brown face down to the neck along with brown lips. This is because you don't just kiss the elder's asses, you have your entire head stuck up there.
- Spiritual---but not too spiritual. In other words, you should be at virtually all the meetings and out in Service on a regular basis, but you have to walk a fine line---you don't want to get alot more hours in Service than the elders, otherwise they'll think you're trying to show them up.
- Unable to make a decision on your own. You must ask the other elder's view on absolutely everything, from hair cuts to fornication to buying a home. By doing this, you show that you are apt at practicing Elder Worship, which is the biggest factor that will get you made an MS.
- Make sure you buy a four-door car. No other explanation is necessary.
They wanted me to just do the work and live up to the highest standards according to the strictest interpretations of every rule, and yet they didn't want me to be acknowledged. I didn't really care if I got promoted; I just wanted to be treated like a human being with actual needs that are common to all humans, and they shot that down while still expecting me to just do the work.
All the while, they hounded me to pioneer. They were not satisfied that I was putting in something like 20-25 hours a month in field circus. They thought I could regular pioneer, and that's what they were going to get no matter what. Fxxx getting the sisters to take notice--they were hellbent on making sure that doing the absolute maximum became the bare minimum without any acknowledgement. And they wanted me to quit my life and go to Beth Hell, which I "forgot" to send in for an application (from what I have heard from those who have been to Beth Hell, it is worse than any secular job plus the pay is crap).
Of course, they wonder why I stopped doing anything. They wanted me to pioneer, so I started putting in one hour of [dummy] service a month, and then nothing. They wanted me to give up my real music and listen to Kingdumb Sxxx all the time, so I got more than 500 CDs of rap where every other word is a swear word and that glorifies using drugs. They wanted me to go to boasting sessions, just meet men, and then showcase me for giving up all chance for sex "for the Kingdumb" when I hit 60 or 70; I stopped going to meetings altogether and even set up a Christmas tree, got a Ouija board (at that, on the day of the 2006 Crapmorial), and looked at every apostate Web site I could find.
I got f**ked over at the corrupt family wrecking Rockland Massachusetts Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses.
This was my last stand congregation and an abusive sleazy soap opera Kingdom Hall Village of the Damned K-Hall http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=dannyhaszard Danny Haszard Bangor Maine
It's hard to "get in the circle", isn't it?
Yes unfortunately there is a heirachy system in the cong, and unfortunately again it seems like its hereditary.