Do Muslems and Christains have the same God?

by Undecided 74 Replies latest jw friends

Merry Magdalene

Hi LT, fancy meeting you here! Always a pleasure.

Just a single rider to your comments, as told me by several Muslim friends - I am informed that there is a corporate responsibility thing in the Islamic mentality. Where Jihad has been proclaimed there is a war that is conducted at least in one place on earth and every opposer is classed as an unbeliever. Hence American unbelievers on American soil are all classed as opposers and are fair game for the current conflicts. The only staying hand, aside from sensibilities, is that war is being conducted on Iraqi soil and so the communal responsibility to take action "somewhere" is being fulfilled leaving the rest of the worldwide Islamic community to have a free conscience to live their day-to-day lives normally.

I think there are varying views on that, if I understand what you are saying. Basically, I would answer that all unbelievers are classed as unbelievers, but not all unbelievers are opponents. Non-combatants are still non-combatants and should be protected and respected as such according to the rules of engagement. I have heard that some Muslims feel that if Muslim civilians are being killed by America and her allies then it is only fair for their civilians to be killed in return. At this point, although I understand it, I do not agree with it, because of what the Qur'an says and because of how careful Muhammad was in battle, in addition to my personal feelings.

I would agree the koran is more in keeping with the old mosaic law of the old testament.
To some extent.
As for christians we are not under the old way of a written law but under the new way of the spirit.
It is to bad that so many, Christians and Muslims alike, haven't lived as we claim we are supposed to do.
Again the verses show Islam to be a viscous and unforgiving religion. Anyone who would crucify and mutilate prisoners of war would be tried as a war criminal in todays courts.
From what I saw, what was quoted included the fierceness of battle during war, not just taking prisoners after the battle. And no matter how just, fighting is always brutal, is it not? When someone attacks, it is brutal. When someone defends themselves and others from attack, they can't be gentle about it if they want to be effective. That is why there are rules of engagement, so that warriors will be mindful not to transgress bounds, non-combatants won't be hurt and killed, livelihoods will not be destroyed, truces can hopefully be called and peace made, limiting the loss of life. As I understand it, in the midst of battle, one fights as hard as one can to win; when possible one makes prisoners of enemy combatants, rather than killing them all; and one deals with war criminals as war criminals. But there are limits on this too. Punishments must be carried out lawfully, not vigilante style. But you won't get that from reading a few verses. You would have to know the entire Qur'an and Sunnah and understand shari'ah, or consult someone who does.
Islam is a more forgiving religion than you know. The enemies of Islam do not want you to know the truth about it as that would make it a little harder to rally people against it (but only a little, I think).
And yes Merry this conduct is far worse than civilised countries operate on the whole and any normal person would and should be horrified. Even in abio grabe prison the American soilders only humiliated there prisoners by putting womens panties on there head and haveing women soilders lead them around. Isnt that terrible crime. They think of women as worth nothing, that was there real problem. Some men in the west would love a pair of womens nickers to do weird things to.Or to be led around like a dog and they even pay good money for the privilage.
Please don't make me show you pictures of what your 'civilised' countries do 'on the whole.' And do you really think women's panties and dog leashes is all that was inflicted on prisoners at abu ghraib?!? Your comments on this would be truly horrifying to me if I did not reassure myself that you are simply ignorant of the reality. Although how you can be, I just don't know. And what some men in the West would love is definitely not the issue here. Oh, and Iraqi men think of their women as worth nothing???
...dogs snarling at cowering prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other...
Urinating on detainees
Jumping on detainee's leg (a limb already wounded by gunfire) with such force that it could not thereafter heal properly
Continuing by pounding detainee's wounded leg with collapsible metal baton
Pouring phosphoric acid on detainees
Sodomization of detainees with a baton
Tying ropes to the detainees' legs or penises and dragging them across the floor.
...the sexual abuse of a 16-year-old girl by two interrogators, as well as a 16-year-old son of an Iraqi general, who was driven through the cold night air on the open back of a truck after he had been showered and besmeared with mud in order to get his father to talk....prisoners were shot for minor misbehavior...had venomous snakes bite prisoners, sometimes resulting in their deaths....Hung by their arms from the ceiling and beaten so severely that, according to a report by Army investigators later leaked to the Baltimore Sun, their legs would have needed to be amputated had they lived....methods explicitly mentioned as being sanctioned are sleep deprivation, hooding prisoners, playing loud music, removing all detainees' clothing, forcing them to stand in so-called "stress positions", and the use of dogs. --That was just from wikipedia; I have other sources as well, if you are interested.
What right has the muslim world to judge us anyway i dont have any reguard for there laws or opinions.
Hmmmmm....I think most of the leaders in the West feel just as you do on this. Makes for some interesting foreign policy, doesn't it?
Anyway you are a good sport Merry allways comming back here.
Thanks, Barry, but I'm not feeling terribly sporting at the moment. This is very serious to me. Especially as I see growing signs that the world may well be heading towards a Muslim holocaust in which gentlemen like you may well be cheering on the captivity, torture and death of ladies like me who support the Muslim right of self-defense and defense of an Islamic way of life against all aggressors.

Thanks for continuing this discussion, Ken!

I have no knowledge of the Muslem religion except what I hear and see on the news. They seem to have no remorse for killing anyone they can if they are following their crazy leaders. Why are almost all the ones who blow themselves up in an attempt to kill as many others as they can, Muslems? Christains have about the same history during the dark ages. The Gods that religious people through history have worshiped seem to like this kind of conduct.
It was the same for me not so long ago, having no knowledge of the Muslim religion except what I heard and saw on the news. Then I became friends online with a Muslim in Turkey and started trying to inform myself a bit more...and ended up becoming a Muslim myself. Please don't believe everything you hear or accept the broader picture it paints without looking into things more deeply and within the larger context. Question everything, one piece at a time. Then see the picture that begins developing.
Most Christain religions today don't view God as requiring his followers to kill others except in times of war and it can be against other Christain nations. Of course they don't get a bunch of virgins when they get to heaven. The Muslems fight one another also, depending what tribe you belong to.
That is the point I was trying to make in regard to the teachings of Islam. I hope you didn't miss it. But whereas it appears Christians were not given any rules for war in the New Testament, Muslims were given rules. But, alas, humans are always fighting humans, whatever their stated religion or lack thereof. I believe that each of us will bear responsibility before our Creator for what we did or didn't do in this life.
Religion can be as Rutherford stated,"A snare and a racket." Religion can also be a way to cope with life and mostly death. I attended church yeaterday with my wife and I can see how on occasions it does help people become better persons. I really think it is an emotional stimulas to try to answer the questions of life for us poor stupid humans who have no idea what life really is.
I can agree with you to a certain extent here! And I wish you all the best, in this life and the next.

~Merry

freetosee

As far as I know, suicide killing is condemned in the Koran... the only biblical example I can think of is Samson. He purposely killed himself and as many as he could of the Philistines.
I think almost all worship the same god, but just understand him differently.
fts
the dreamer dreaming

we all have the same ONE reality supporting us all, our ignorant opinions of it are out of wack is all.
Merry Magdalene

"Muslims outright deny the Sonship of Jesus Christ; therefore, Islam is of the Devil. Islam is a damnable organization, who denies Jesus Christ. Don't believe the lie, not for one second--that Muslims and Christians worship the SAME God. No, we don't! The Koran clearly states in, The Women 4.171, that God has NO Son. In sharp contrast, John 3:16 in the Word of God declares that God DOES have a Son, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." The Koran even goes as far as to claim that Jesus never died, nor was He crucified (The Women, 4.157)."
Correct. Muslims are strict monotheists. That doesn't mean Islam is of the Devil, however. We accept and honor the Prophets God sent to all nations throughout history. The names of those we know of through the Qur'an include Abraham, Moses, Solomon, David, John, and Jesus, peace be upon them all. We believe Christians were originally monotheists too and did not worship a Trinity nor Jesus as God nor the Son of God. We believe the Jewish and Christian scriptures and message were corrupted and that the final message through the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad has been protected from corruption. We believe that no one can carry someone else's burden of sin, but are each responsible for ourselves and are forgiven individually on the basis of repentence and obedience. So far as I understand it.
~Merry
steve2

I think almost all worship the same god, but just understand him differently.
That sounds like a feel-good white-wash. Whether we worship the same god is immaterial. The key is how do our beliefs lead us to behave, day by day. Over the centuries, and up until the present age, people supposedly believing in the same god have found 'scriptural' justification for heinously murderous acts against their fellow humans - all in the supposed name of monsters called Jehovah, Allah or similar.
freetosee

Steve,
well, even those within the same religion can understand their god differently. I don't believe in god, but if there really is one, I still wouldn't want to worship, since so much badness for sooo long has no justification.
To me having faith in god is wishful thinking due to fear of death, put in a nutshell. So no matter what religion, it is the same thing -wishful thinking. The way they see or explain god differs. Sadly many are ready to die and kill for these differences. fts
hibiscusfire

Muslims and Christians do not have the same God.
For starters ....Allah did not have a son. Jehovah God the Father has a Son ...our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
That alone can tell you the difference.
Next, Christians believe in the Trinity, muslims do not believe in anything like that.
Did you know that in the time of Abraham, muslims believe it was Ismael who was to be sacrificed? My Bible states it was Isaac not Ismael.
The qur'an is false. Take for example the question about the setting of the sun. The qur'an says,
"He (Zulqarnain) followed, until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it set in a spring of murky water.
(Surah XVIII ( Kahf) vs. 85-86)"
...and this is the sun that Allah claimed he made.
If muslims and christians had the same God the same facts would apply.
hibiscusfire
hibiscusfire
hibiscusfire

Ishmael I mean.
hibie
LittleToe

Merry:
I'm told that since the Americans are at war with Iraq (an Islamic nation) then they are more than merely unbelievers, they are fair game. I imagine the same goes for the British, as another main protagonist. It certainly explains various bombings and why there has been little outcry from the Islamic community in either nation.
...the final message through the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad has been protected from corruption.
How is that any different a view from what we were taught about the Bible by the JWs (and other more fundamentalist Christian groups)? Is there any evidence for this, aside from it being a few hundred years newer? This would certainly appear to be a similarity between the fundamentalists of each religious group.
barry
Merry you said From what I saw that was quoted included the responce of the fierceness of battle during war.
1. I would agree with you Koran 47.4 applies to this.
2. In the koran verse 5,33-34 The context is the punishment of prisoners of war and is stated they must be crucified or have their hands and feet chopped of on opposite sides, This is obviously reffering to prisoners of war after they are captured, and is not only a war crime but equals the savagery of the worst of the worst.
3. Whatever happened at abu grab prison was dealt with through the rule of law and any claimes should be considered with the evidence presented for and against in a court of law not through islamic web sites. The people were tried in court if I remember correctly.
4. What court of law would convict muslims who carry out the words of the koran 5,33-34?
5. I see the muslim world as the agressor and us unbeleivers can be set apon simply because we dont share the same faith.
6. Doesnt the koran claim the trinity is made up of the father son and mary. If the koran is so accurate why would it say that? You might be able to help here Merry. The trinity has allways been father son and holy spirit from the earliest times.
7. does anyone know how to cancell this numbering thing?

Do Muslems and Christains have the same God?

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