Do Muslems and Christains have the same God?

by Undecided 74 Replies latest jw friends

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    "O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

    "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

    "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

    "When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

    "In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

    "How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

  • Merry Magdalene
    Merry Magdalene

    So do Muslims have no right to defend and protect themselves?

    I had hoped you would respond to the verses I shared in this regard. Maybe you still will. I am interested in knowing your thoughts, especially since your answer to me has no personal commentary.

    I am glad you took the time and effort to quote that which you find troubling as to God's commands to the Muslims to fight against the unbelievers. Perhaps you won't mind taking a closer look, as I would like you to see that these commands are not what some people would have you think, namely that Muslims must kill all unbelievers, at all times and in all places:

    "O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [ all non-Muslims ] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

    Please read the next few verses so you will know what unbelievers and hypocrites are being talked about here:

    "They swear by Allah that they said nothing (wrong), yet they did say the word of disbelief, and did disbelieve after their Surrender (to Allah). And they purposed that which they could not attain, and they sought revenge only that Allah by His messenger should enrich them of His bounty. If they repent it will be better for them; and if they turn away, Allah will afflict them with a painful doom in the world and the Hereafter, and they have no protecting friend nor helper in the earth.Amongst them are men who made a covenant with Allah, that if He bestowed on them of His bounty, they would give (largely) in charity, and be truly amongst those who are righteous. But when He did bestow of His bounty, they became covetous, and turned back (from their covenant), averse (from its fulfilment). So He hath put as a consequence hypocrisy into their hearts, (to last) till the Day, whereon they shall meet Him: because they broke their covenant with Allah, and because they lied (again and again)." --Qur'an 9:74-77These verses were revealed after the Campaign of Tabuk, which you can read about here: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maududi/mau9.html The historical context is quite interesting and will help explain the above quite a bit more.

    "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [ holy war ], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

    I would repeat that 2:190 makes clear that we are to fight only the unbelievers who fight and oppress us, not just any old unbeliever.

    "The punishment of those who wage waragainst Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

    Again the enemy is described, here as "those who wage war against...and strive after corruption in the land." Do you perhaps feel that the things sanctioned in war in these verses are more horrifying and barbaric than what happens in war now? Or are you against all war, even defensive war? Or is it only Muslims who have no right to defend themselves? I do not know you, so I am asking your feelings on this.

    "When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

    ?

    "In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [ all non-Muslims ] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

    In the 8th Surah, Believers are described as "those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts, and when they hear His signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened, and put (all) their trust in their Lord; Who establish regular prayers and spend (freely) out of the gifts We have given them for sustenance." The "impure" of the above verse are those who, in previous verses, are described as ones who "contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.... Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home)....But Allah was not going to send them a penalty whilst thou wast amongst them; nor was He going to send it whilst they could ask for pardon. But what plea have they that Allah should not punish them, when they keep out (men) from the sacred Mosque - and they are not its guardians? No men can be its guardians except the righteous; but most of them do not understand....The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell."These are not people who simply don't believe what Muslims believe, but who act strongly and unrelentingly against them.

    "How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

    Both this and the one above at 17:16-17 are speaking of societies in the past, visited by Messengers from Allah, because they were living very bad lives, usually at the expense of other people, and who would not accept guidance and correction, would not change their ways, and so were wiped out by forces of nature at the command of their Creator, Allah. It is a warning to us to seriously consider the message brought by the final Prophet, and to consider how we are living.

    ~Merry (who loves peace but will fight back if attacked)

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    To take the verse in deuteronomy out of context would leave you with only an ancient Israelite command and they were a bloodthirsty lot. The "same God" comment, in that context would refer to Muslim and Israelite faiths, not Christian, though the Christian religion has its own bloody history. That having been said I agree with Nic's first post, wherein he states that war would be reduced markedly (but not eliminated) by a reduction in religion. Wherever mankind has an idealogy to stand behind they can be the most brute of beast.

    Merry:
    Long time no see. Hope you are well.

    Just a single rider to your comments, as told me by several Muslim friends - I am informed that there is a corporate responsibility thing in the Islamic mentality. Where Jihad has been proclaimed there is a war that is conducted at least in one place on earth and every opposer is classed as an unbeliever. Hence American unbelievers on American soil are all classed as opposers and are fair game for the current conflicts. The only staying hand, aside from sensibilities, is that war is being conducted on Iraqi soil and so the communal responsibility to take action "somewhere" is being fulfilled leaving the rest of the worldwide Islamic community to have a free conscience to live their day-to-day lives normally.

  • barry
    barry

    I would agree the koran is more in keeping with the old mosaic law of the old testament.

    As for christians we are not under the old way of a written law but under the new way of the spirit.

    Again the verses show Islam to be a viscous and unforgiving religion. Anyone who would crucify and mutilate prisoners of war would be tried as a war criminal in todays courts.

    And yes Merry this conduct is far worse than civilised countries operate on the whole and any normal person would and should be horrified. Even in abio grabe prison the American soilders only humiliated there prisoners by putting womens panties on there head and haveing women soilders lead them around. Isnt that terrible crime. They think of women as worth nothing, that was there real problem. Some men in the west would love a pair of womens nickers to do weird things to.Or to be led around like a dog and they even pay good money for the privilage.

    What right has the muslim world to judge us anyway i dont have any reguard for there laws or opinions.

    Anyway you are a good sport Merry allways comming back here.

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    I have no knowledge of the Muslem religion except what I hear and see on the news. They seem to have no remorse for killing anyone they can if they are following their crazy leaders. Why are almost all the ones who blow themselves up in an attempt to kill as many others as they can, Muslems? Christains have about the same history during the dark ages. The Gods that religious people through history have worshiped seem to like this kind of conduct.

    Most Christain religions today don't view God as requiring his followers to kill others except in times of war and it can be against other Christain nations. Of course they don't get a bunch of virgins when they get to heaven. The Muslems fight one another also, depending what tribe you belong to.

    Religion can be as Rutherford stated,"A snare and a racket." Religion can also be a way to cope with life and mostly death. I attended church yeaterday with my wife and I can see how on occasions it does help people become better persons. I really think it is an emotional stimulas to try to answer the questions of life for us poor stupid humans who have no idea what life really is.

    Ken P.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Muslims don't believe Allah is predictable or "nice". Allah does as He pleases and it might seem wild and crazy. God is god and has that prerogative.

    Christian God is predictable and has to do things by the book.

    Not the same being.

  • freyd
    freyd

    "Muslims outright deny the Sonship of Jesus Christ; therefore, Islam is of the Devil. Islam is a damnable organization, who denies Jesus Christ. Don't believe the lie, not for one second--that Muslims and Christians worship the SAME God. No, we don't! The Koran clearly states in, The Women 4.171, that God has NO Son. In sharp contrast, John 3:16 in the Word of God declares that God DOES have a Son, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." The Koran even goes as far as to claim that Jesus never died, nor was He crucified (The Women, 4.157)." http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Freemasonry/freemasonry_is_of_the_devil.htm

  • steve2
    steve2

    Whether they have the same god is open to debate I suppose. One thing I do worry about is they often travel on the same airlines!

  • RR
    RR

    I would say that Jews and Muslims have the same God, Christians have a Trinity, Jews and Muslims are not trinitarians.

    RR

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Absolutely. They both borrowed the same bloodthirsty desert god from the Jews, took the parts they liked, added a few embellishments of their own and then turned on the people who had given them their deity.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit