NAME JUST ONE thing....ONE THING...revealed by God....

by Terry 284 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    From the time of Aristotle, 2,300 years ago, scientific theory held the universe to be eternal. The unchanging stellar pattern of the heavens was shining evidence of this eternity. Einstein even claimed to have proven it, though with some sleight-of-hand. Through the early 1960s in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, two thirds of leading U.S. scientists surveyed believed it. For 3,300 years, since the revelation on Sinai, the Bible denied it, steadfastly claiming there was a beginning to our universe.

    Only in the past thirty years has science resolved the question. Based on data from telescopes and particle accelerators, the 3,300-year-old Genesis 1:1 was correct all along. There WAS a beginning. The old, we have learned, is not necessarily the out of date. ( The Science of God by Gerald L. Schroeder)

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    Does the above count, Terry? I'm sure you'll shoot it down in a blaze of psycho-babble glory!

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    I want an answer, dammit! This counts in my opinion. BUT I COULD BE WRONG!

  • Terry
    Terry

    From the time of Aristotle, 2,300 years ago, scientific theory held the universe to be eternal. The unchanging stellar pattern of the heavens was shining evidence of this eternity. Einstein even claimed to have proven it, though with some sleight-of-hand. Through the early 1960s in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, two thirds of leading U.S. scientists surveyed believed it. For 3,300 years, since the revelation on Sinai, the Bible denied it, steadfastly claiming there was a beginning to our universe.

    Only in the past thirty years has science resolved the question. Based on data from telescopes and particle accelerators, the 3,300-year-old Genesis 1:1 was correct all along. There WAS a beginning. The old, we have learned, is not necessarily the out of date. ( The Science of God by Gerald L. Schroeder)

    I would say this.

    If Genesis says God created the universe out of nothing and science only recently discovered that is what happened, then; this would answer my Thread Subject in the affirmative. The answer would be: "Yes!"

    The devil is in the details.

    Does Genesis purport to say this definitively? If it does, it would place the information of Genesis outside the commonly held opinion of great thinkers, religionists and philosophers and elevate the bible account as either very lucky or superior.

    Stipulating the latter, it would be evidence of divine inspiration.

    Can we state that Genesis is arguing ex nihilo?

  • Terry
    Terry
    Arguments in favour

    Some verses from the Judeo-Christian Bible often cited in support of ex nihilo creation by God are the following:

    • And the earth 0776 was 01961 without form 08414 , and void 0922 ; and darkness 02822 [was] upon the face 06440 of the deep 08415 . And the Spirit 07307 of God 0430 moved 07363 upon 05921 the face 06440 of the waters 04325 . Genesis 1:1-2 Verses include the Strong's Concordance numbers for word reference
    • The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Proverbs 8:22-24
    • By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalm 33:6
    • All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3
    • even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Romans 4:17
    • And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 1 Corinthians 1:28
    • Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3
    • My son, have pity on me; I carried you nine months in the womb and suckled you three years.... I implore you, my child, observe heaven and earth, consider all that is in them, and acknowledge that God made them out of what did not exist, and that mankind comes into being in the same way. Do not fear this executioner, but prove yourself worthy of your brothers, and make death welcome, so that in the day of mercy I may receive you back in your brothers' company. 2 Maccabees 7:27-29 Jerusalem Bible

    Another major argument for creatio ex nihilo is the "first cause" argument, which may be summarized as:

    1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
    2. The universe began to exist.
    3. Therefore, the universe must have a cause.

    Additional support for ex nihilo creation comes from the Summum philosophy that states before there was anything, there was nothing, and if there was nothing, then it must have been possible for nothing to be. If it is possible for nothing to be, then it must be possible for everything to be. This condition results in SUMMUM , i.e. the totality of creation. [2]

    The scientific consensus now is that the universe had a beginning and that every thing that now exists in the universe had its origin in a large explosion of energy called the ' Big Bang '

    Islam

    The Mu'tazili favoured this thought.

    alt This short section requires expansion.

    Arguments against

    Some have argued that this concept cannot be deduced from the Hebrew and that the Book of Genesis , chapter 1, speaks of God "making" or "fashioning" the universe. However, Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi (1745-1812) disputed these arguments in section II of his book titled " Tanya ". Thomas Jay Oord argues that Christians should abandon the doctrine of creation ex nihilo. Oord points to the work of biblical scholars, such as Jon D. Levenson, who acknowledge that the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo is not present in Genesis. Oord speculates that God created our particular universe billions of years ago from primordial chaos. This chaos did not predate God, however, for God would have created the chaotic elements as well. Oord shows that God can create all things without creating from absolute nothingness.

    A few early Jewish and Christian theologians and philosophers, including Philo , Justin , Athenagoras , Hermogenes , Clement of Alexandria , and, later, Johannes Scotus Eriugena have made statements that seem to indicate that they do not hold to the concept of the creation-out-of-nothing. Philo, for instance, postulated a pre-existent matter alongside God.

    Process theologians argue that God has always been related to some “world” or another.

    The doctrine may, as the quotation from Maccabees illustrate, have arisen to explain the creative action of a God who is usually referred to in male terms, a patriarchal God even. Males do not gestate living things in the way normally capable of observation, so it had to be explained in a different sense.

    Critics also claim that rejecting 'creatio ex nihilo' provides the opportunity to affirm that God has everlastingly created and related with some realm of nondivine actualities or another. According to this alternative God-world theory, no nondivine thing exists without the creative activity of God, and nothing can terminate God’s necessary existence.

    Joseph Smith , founder of the Latter Day Saint movement dismissed creation ex nihilo, and introduced revelation that specifically countered this concept. [1]Mormons believe that God created everything from pre-existing matter. Latter-day Saint apologists have commented on Colossians 1:16 that the "Greek text does not teach ex nihilo, but creation out of pre-existing raw materials, since the verb ktidzo 'carried an architectural connotation...as in to build or establish a city....Thus, the verb presupposes the presence of already existing material.'" [2]

    While the idea of God everlastingly relating with creatures may seem strange because of its novelty, even its opponents in Christian history – like Thomas Aquinas – admitted it as a logical possibility.

    An alternative is offered by physicists Paul Steinhardt (Princeton University) and Neil Turok (Cambridge University). Their proposal is based upon the ancient idea that space and time have always existed in some form. Using developments in super string theory , Steinhardt and Turok suggest that the Big Bang of our universe is a bridge to a pre-existing universe, and that creation undergoes an eternal succession of universes, with possibly trillions of years of evolution in each. Gravity and the transition from Big Crunch to Big Bang characterize an everlasting succession of universes, though no evidence currently exists to back up the idea.

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