by Terry 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Mad Tiger:
I get your point, but I wasn't born perfect. I didn't have perfection and then "lose" it like Eve supposedly did. I feel that puts me in a different category than Eve.
So, if I am 'paying' for my own sin, which I didn't acquire on my own but instead was saddled with, I inherited a debt. This is screwed up.
L
Well, what is sin in the first place? Disease, death, and making mistakes are all part and parcel of being a carbon-based life form. Dinosaurs had disease. Hell, don't we even know why we grow old, because of telomeres?
Sin is a great way of controlling people by inducing guilt into daily life. If sin is real, we ought be able to identify it in the genes.
I think the absurdity of the ransom is aptly depicted here:
There was no Adam and Eve, no original sin, no god requiring a debt to be paid, and no Jesus paying it. I find discussions like this almost like discussing a cartoon, but like you, I continue to be attracted to it like a moth to a light.. Is it because so many intelligent people actually believe it and I can't understand why? Could be.
So the answer is: attend all meetings and have a regular share in the field ministry! That is the only way you can expect to have a chance at salvation. Oh, and look to the organization for everything, while never questioning them on anything.
Discussions with believers about this are always circular:
Me: "Why am I being punished for Adam's sin?"
Xian: "Your not, your being punished for your own sins."
Me: "How do you know I've sinned?"
Xian: "Everybody sins."
Me: "How do you know that?"
Xian: "Because it's in our nature."
Me: "Why do we have such a stupid nature?"
Xian: "We inherited sinful nature from Adam."
Me: "So why am I being punished for Adam's sin?"
Xian: "Your not, your being punished for your own sins."
And so on... Avoiding the question by rearranging it.
But either way you look at it, we either inherited sin or 'sinful nature' from Adam. And either way, it's punishment for someone else's error.
Why aren't humans born perfect, until they sin? That is the question. If they are not born perfect, then it's punishment for someone elses sin, AKA injustice.
By the way:
The Watchtower equates Adam's sin as the theft of a perfect life. So according to Exodus 22:1 Divine justice states that Jesus is going to have to come here and die three or four more times...
Lore
Your script was pretty funny.
But back to your logic:
The last few lines imply that we had some right to be born perfect, and were therefore cheated -- victims of injustice.
That would be nice if it were the case, but it is not.
We don't have a right to anything.
We kinda have the 'right' though, because Adam and Eve were created perfect, and their children hadn't done anything wrong when they were born, so they should have got the same starting point as their parents had. But when they didn't, it means they were punished for something their parents did. Something was taken from them that their parents had, because their parents did something wrong. But I realise we can go round and round with this; they had sinned because they were offspring of sinful parents. And so on and so forth.
Of course - God decides what rights we have; he could have created us with one arm and half a leg and we couldn't say he owed us any more. But isn't he supposed to be all loving and all fair, full of justice and so on?
To me this is kinda like a discussion of how many spokes there were in the wheels of Thor's wagon [not an actual debate; I'm just making up an example], with scholars on both sides having good arguments. But this (sin) argument is of course more relevant to our lives if for no other reason than that we live in a "Christian" part of the world, so I guess it's important to get it answered.
Terry said:
What is the mechanism for the passing on of this inherent nature?
How do you pass on any trait or inherent tendancy? Through BLOOD. The Original Sin involved BLOOD----not the disobedient act of eating a piece of literal fruit from a literal tree.
Good point! So, what was the point of Jesus dying for everyone if we die? It's a 2 for 1 offer to...God??? Paganism and reincarnation make so much more sense than Christianity. No offense to the Christians here. I like everyone
Where does is say "Adam and Eve were created perfect?"
