Race! Why is it important?

by Justahuman24 49 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Justahuman24

  Well, this is just going to be about some misunderstandings, I guess.

  Why is it that MOST "Americans" or people in the U.S. consider "Hispanics/Latinos" and Spaniards to be the same? I mean, they're not. Spaniards are Caucasian. They're European like Italians, Greeks, French, etc. But there are "white hispanics". Argentina is composed of mostly people who are of 100% European descent: About 95% of it's population are of Spanish descent, Italian, German, some English, Dutch, and a few others. However, if an Argentinian person comes to the U.S. and even though he or she may have an Italian last name and may look 100% white, as soon as they say "I'm from Argentina" or start speaking Spanish, people say " But I thought you were white?" or " But you look white". Why is there so much ignorance in the U.S.?

  Now look at pics of many famous celebrities whom most people just by looking at them consider them twice and have no idea they are "hispanic". Rory from the Gilmore Girls. Her mother is Mexican and her father is Argentinian yet she's pale, blue eyed and speaks Spanish perfectly because it was her first language. Her real name is Alexis Bledel. Cameron Diaz (Half Cuban), Christina Aguilera(Half Ecuadorian), Frank Muniz (Half Puerto Rican) and David Gallagher (half Cuban) from 7th Heaven and Cheyenne from Reba (100% of Cuban descent) are part "hispanic". Yet few people know that and they're thought of as "white" even the first three mentioned just because they "look" white and don't speak Spanish.

  However, Jennifer Lopez, even though she was born in the US and speaks little Spanish is thought of as "hispanic" because she "looks" hispanic. There's no specific way or "rule" of what a "hispanic" should look like. Granted, most of the "hispanics" in the U.S. are the ones who are either mixed with Amerindians and have those features but that's because most of them are poor and that's why they leave their countries. Which also makes me wonder - there are "white" americans who are part Native American but they still consider themselves and are considered by others "white" even though they have native american descent. Cher for example. She's Cherokee. And lots of other "white americans" half not only native american descent but also black yet they are considered white just because they may not "look" white. But hispanics who are 100% of European descent like Gloria Estefan is not considered white because she's "latina". WTF?

  Any thoughts?

  justahuman - but super nonetheless
• 

  stillajwexelder

  In Britain if you are from India there is a chance you will be called the slur "Paki" but of course they are totally different
• 

  coaster

  God you girls are all so DAMN HOT! I love it!

  THANK YOU JEHOVAH!!!!....coaster
• 

  nvrgnbk

  I get what you're getting at, justa.

  Many Americans think all Hispanics eat at Taco Bell.

  The variety of cultures and nationalities that share the Spanish language is immense.
• 

  outnfree

  It's not, in my opinion, but I'm a true Melting-Pot American: African, Danish, English, Irish, French, and German descent, but mostly Danish. Most people would call me white. I consider myself to be "Caucasian" because for the longest time, I had no confirmation that I had any African blood, just a few relatives with nappy hair and dark complexions.
  
  I know my late mother-in-law, who was Spanish, considered herself superior to the Puerto Ricans who lived in her city. Because they were mixed race? Probably. We used to give her hell about it. She had friends of all nationalities, but there was this little piece of her that looked down her nose at Puerto Ricans and Mexicans.
  
  Since my ex-husband is pure Spaniard -- ha! Can THAT even be true? I mean, how many times did Phoenicans, Arabs, Jews, the French, the British, etc, invade and conquer Spain, and especially the Balaeric Islands, which is where his family is from?!! -- my children say they are 50% Hispanic.
  
  Remember that "Mediterranean" European were not always considered "white" here in America years ago. In fact, in "Portugee" was code for having some Black blood -- because often it was Portugese slavers who brought Africans to America. There were more liberal immigration quotas for Northern Europeans.
  
  I appreciate that there are different ethnicities, cultures, and languages in the world and love to learn about differing traditions, rites, and cuisines. But we are all members of the HUMAN race. One thing I do appreciate about my years as a Witness was that my children had exposure to different races and nationalities. They learned early that people are people and that love and common goals can overcome fear of the unknown, and I believe fear of the unknown is what creates barriers between people most of the time.
  
  out
• 

  Justahuman24

  Yes, outnfree! you are correct! In fact! No one is "pure" anything. Everyone has a mixture of something. The Spanish people have been conquered by many different groups including the 800 yr old rule by the "moors" who are thought by most people to have been "africans" and that's actually why lots of people in the US don't consider Spaniards white. However, there's no proof that the "moors" were black. They are thought by experts to have been Berbers who are actually not black. I mean, they are in Africa - North Africa - but they are not black. In many portraits of the "moors", they are pictured as light skin and there are still Berbers in North Africa today who are not black at all. They're light skinned, blonds and blue eyes or "Mediterranean" looking. Also, there have been studies done that show that 10%-20% of "white" americans half some black ancestry, esp. the ones in the South because that's where slavery was more prevalent. And ironically enough, it's where most people are more racist. Your mother-in-law still has the 15th to 18th century Spanish sentiment that they are better because they "conquered" most of Latin America. Even those who were born in Latin America of 100% Spanish ancestry back then were considered inferior just by the simple fact of having been born in the "New World". These people were called Criollos. And there are millions of Criollos in Latin America still today. And they can trace their ancestry 100% to Europe without any mixing with either blacks or Native Americans, yet most people assume they are not "pure" Europeans. justahuman - but super nonetheless
• 

  JCanon

  Interesting topic, but I think you hit the nail right on the head. People have to be what they are perceived to be whether that is precisely right or not.

  And it's painful sometimes. I know that, being Black, it might sound strange me saying this, but in one congregation where I went, there was this very nice couple where the wife was white and the father was Japanese. Japanese can be fair skinned. The children looked generally white but with a little oriental flare. But I know they were not going to be accepted as "white" in their world. They would be treated as Asian.

  The other thing which fascinates me, is the Jewish issue. To me, again, being Black, I can't really tell the difference between a Jew (like Barbra Streisand or Steven Spielberg or even Whoopi Goldberg!!! --kidding!) and a white person. But it seems to be something the white world keeps track of for some reason.

  But having noted that, it's equally fascinating that all these racial issues so much so revolves around if you're "white" or not. But as much of it might be because of intentional cultural manipulation to make sure whites always come out ahead, that being based on Aristotleism, there is the genetic issue. And that is, if you were to break down everything into two very general groups with regard to skin color, the two groups would be WHITE and NON-WHITE. Whites carry the recessive genes of the human family. That's why a white man can only have a white child with a white woman. When any white person mixes with a "person of colour" then the more dominant genes take over and that person is thus considered "non-white" even if they are considered mixed, or a member of the non-white parent's race.

  Look at the mixed celebrities we have that are half white, like the sons of Diana Ross or Halle Berry who is half Jewish, or Diana's daughter Tracy Ellis Ross who is half Jewish. They all are considered "black" even though only half their genes come from a black mother.

  Things are a lot better now, of course, as far as labels and superiority issues. But the solution to all that is simply to LOVE EVERYBODY for who they are. And sometimes that isn't about loving the Mexicans or the Puerto Ricans or the Koreans, but looking past all the hurtful history of the Nazis and the whites in the South of the U.S. and all those cultural messages and learning to appreciate and like white people as God's children as well, with their own special beauty and gifts. Then it doesn't really matter. A person's skin is simply their personal decoration and not much more.

  As someone else said, though, we are ALL mixed and no one is pure. Perhaps. But Eve was white and Adam was Black. Abel was a shepherd and Cain was a farmer...if you get my drift. So the competition has been going on for a long time. The Bible says that both Jehovah's and Jesus' hair is "wooly," if you get my drift. Satan is said to be the most beautiful angel in all of heaven...if you get my drift.

  Anyway, I'm glad things are better today, it seems than before, even though it hasn't been that many years since the Holocaust, amazingly!!!

  JCanon
• 

  nvrgnbk

  Anyway, I'm glad things are better today, it seems than before, even though it hasn't been that many years since the Holocaust, amazingly!!!

  Now that makes some sense!
• 

  IP_SEC

  There is no such thing as different races among humans. We are all the same species.

  Example: Blacks and Whites are not sub-species of the human race as say the dingo (canus lupus dingo) and the dog (canus lupus familiarus) are sub-species of Canus Lupus.

  We are all Homo sapiens sapiens. All of us. There is only one known human race in existence. US.
• 

  LongHairGal

  All these posts are excellent.

  Justahuman:

  Yes. There is very much ignorance in the U.S. about the category "Spanish" and "Hispanic". Yes, you are correct that a Spaniard is a European (like French, Swiss, Italian). I have met some white European Spaniards that are annoyed that non-white Hispanics refer to themselves as "Spanish" when in fact they have mostly Indian and/or African ancestry. Even though the term Hispanic used to also refer to Spain, in this country it has developed into a slightly different connotation and generally refers to a person who has mixed Indian/Spanish ancestry. While I realize that Spain has ancient admixtures of arab/moor, the blend over the centuries has produced a generally "white" person. (By the way, other European countries are also mixed with other non-white elements to some degree but over the centuries it has blended and the result is a "white" person.) The "white" race has elements of other races.

  But, not to digress from your point about Hispanic/Spanish. Unfortunately, in this country, because of the general ignorance and confusion on the subject coupled with the desire of some Hispanic people to be seen as "whiter" (sadly), you have many people using the term "Spanish" when referring to themselves who are not from Spain but are a racial mix from Latin America, etc. So, the Spaniards from Spain will continue to get pissed off over this.

  By the way, if you ever read some of those racial boards you will see many arguments involving persons from South America who have some level of native Indian ancestry but will argue about how they are almost "pure" Spanish. After several centuries I tend to doubt if there are any "pure" Spanish down there but there are those who would argue. These boards are quite informative, not necessarily about academic facts, but about people's attitudes.

  LHG