The "Seventy Years" explained

by Doug Mason 72 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Doug Mason

  Here is a picture-based explanation of the "Seventy Years" prophesied by Jeremiah.

  http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/70_years_of_servitude.pdf

  Please note that there are several pages and that you should set your PDF Reader to full page.

  As I said before, I have a red-green color vision deficiency, but this time I have taken the plunge and used color. Please tell me where I need to make corrections with the colors.

  As always, I appreciate your suggestions for improvements, corrections and additions.

  Doug
• 

  Arthur

  Very nice; great work as always. These threads do make me laugh though. It seems like every time you post one of these chronology threads, either scholar or thirdwitness suddenly come out of hibernation and start bitching about it; demanding that you change the chart. Your threads are like smelling salts for the Watchtower apologists.
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  scholar

  Doug Mason

  Post 236

  I have printed out a hard copy of your seven page charts and I commend you for this presentation. However, your model is simply the 'apostate model' as it supports the hypothesis of Carl Jonsson who devotes an entire chapter defending his absurd interpretation of the biblical 'seventy years'. I have much to be critical of your theory which frankly is false to the Bible.

  For starters, you make two important claims:

  1. That the seventy years was a period of servitude only.

  2. That the seventy years began in 605 BCE ending in 539 BCE. When I was at school I learnt arithmetic and when I subtract 539 from 605 I get result of 66 and not 70 so you have a huge exegetical problem here.

  Celebrated WT scholars have proved that the seventy years was a period of servitude, desolation and exile which all ran concurrently from the Fall in 607 BCE until the Return in 537 BCE which is in fact a precise historic period of 70 years. Voila! This understanding of matters is exactly how Josephus viewed the matter and is based upon the the testimony of Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezra and Zechariah.

  So your petty theory is bankrupt and needs a a shakeup which is what scholar will do and he will tear your theory to shreds.

  scholar JW
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  Augustin

  "scholar JW",

  You are in error. As you should be able to know, celebrated scholars have argued that the seventy years "for Babylon" ended in 539 BCE (when Babylon fell). No scholar argues that the seventy years "for Babylon" ended in 537 BCE (two years after the fall of Babylon). According to the celebrated Bible translation La Bible de Jérusalem, the sevent years "for Babylon" could be identified with the following period: 609-639 BCE. I haven't found any scholar advocating WT chronology -- have you? (Furuli is an amateur, not a scholar -- cf. L.L. Grabbe).

  Regards

  -- Augustin --
• 

  jwfacts

  That is fantastic, and there is no red/green problem

  Scholar - if I remember correctly, the foremost of celebrated Watchtower Scholars, no less than Pastor Russell himself, and then the even more influential scholar Rutherford, proved beyond any doubt that Jerusalem fell in 606BC. (Watchtower 1952 May 1 p.271 “21 At this point some will inquire why Charles T. Russell in 1877 used the date 606 B.C. for the fall of Jerusalem)

  And yet at a later date (coincidentally after someone realised that there is no year zero) another celebrated Watchtower scholar proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it fell in 607.

  Does anyone else think it strange that these unquestionable proofs from watchtower scholars, provided from the lips of Jehovah himself, contradict each other?
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  Honesty

  Your threads are like smelling salts for the Watchtower apologists.

  It's like watching the resurrection Live and in living color.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Celebrated WT scholars have proved that ....

  A new oxymoron. LOL
• 

  Hellrider

  Scholar is back with a vengeance... It`s just a matter of hours now before Jeffro and AlanF shows up, and then it`s a 20-page-thread world war again...

  I can`t wait.

  Btw Scholar, your latest point, that Masons calculations amounts to 66 years, is irrelevant. The "70 years" doesn`t have to be exact anyway, it`s still (round about) 70 years. However, if you start counting in 609, when the initial attacks on Judah began, when Nebuchadnezzar was leading his armies against Judah as commander of the army for his father, you`ll get (exactly) 70 years. Either way, it is irrelevant, as the Temple was not destroyed until 587 BC. The "70 years" does not refer to a period without a temple, although this is what your "celebrated WT scholars" would want it to mean. If this was to be the case, the Babylonian dominance over Judah would have lasted a full 90 years, and as you well know, this is nowhere mentioned in the Bible, on the contrary, the Bible says 70 years FOR Babylon, and as it refers to the entire length of Babylons dominance over Judah, it would have had to say "90 years" for Babylon (within your celebrated "chronology"). "Exile and servitude" is not the same as "70 years without a Temple. Unless you can provide me with a scipture that says "for 70 years there will be absolutely no Temple, nor any inhabitants in the land (at all), so saith the Lord"...your arguments are as meaningless as always.

  Your "celebrated WT Scholars" should get their finger out and admit they were wrong..well, they were about to do that in the 50s when the Soviets launched the Sputnik, but as the vote was put to the test in the GB, there was no 2/3rd majority for it - presumably because some of the "celebrated WT Scholars", the older members of the GB had had a heavy lunch, and fell asleep during the vote, while others were out in the hall having their diapers changed, but anyway...
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  bennyk

  And none of this matters because the "Gentile Times" have not ended.

  None of the Watch Tower Society's prophecies regarding the "End of the Gentile Times" were fulfilled.

  Here is an excerpt of "The Time is at Hand" (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. II), pp.76-78 in the pre-1915 editions:

  In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove: [B77]
  Firstly, That at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will obtain full universal control, and that it will then shortly be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions.
  Secondly, It will prove that he whose right it is thus to take the dominion will then be present as earth's new Ruler; and not only so, but it will also prove that he will be present for a considerable period before that date; because the overthrow of these Gentile governments is directly caused by his dashing them to pieces as a potter's vessel (Psa. 2:9; Rev. 2:27), and establishing in their stead his own righteous government.
  Thirdly, It will prove that some time before the end of A. D. 1914 the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ, the "royal priesthood," "the body of Christ," will be glorified with the Head; because every member is to reign with Christ, being a joint-heir with him of the Kingdom, and it cannot be fully "set up" without every member.
  Fourthly, It will prove that from that time forward Jerusalem shall no longer be trodden down of the Gentiles, but shall arise from the dust of divine disfavor, to honor; because the "Times of the Gentiles" will be fulfilled or completed.
  Fifthly, It will prove that by that date, or sooner, Israel's blindness will begin to be turned away; because their "blindness in part" was to continue only "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:25), or, in other words, until the full number from among the Gentiles, who are to be members of the body or bride of Christ, would be fully selected.
  Sixthly, It will prove that the great "time of trouble such [B78] as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination in a world-wide reign of anarchy; and then men will learn to be still, and to know that Jehovah is God and that he will be exalted in the earth. (Psa. 46:10) The condition of things spoken of in symbolic language as raging waves of the sea, melting earth, falling mountains and burning heavens will then pass away, and the "new heavens and new earth" with their peaceful blessings will begin to be recognized by trouble-tossed humanity. But the Lord's Anointed and his rightful and righteous authority will first be recognized by a company of God's children while passing through the great tribulation--the class represented by m and t on the Chart of the Ages (see also pages 235 to 239, Vol. I); afterward, just at its close, by fleshly Israel; and ultimately by mankind in general.
  Seventhly, It will prove that before that date God's Kingdom, organized in power, will be in the earth and then smite and crush the Gentile image (Dan. 2:34)--and fully consume the power of these kings. Its own power and dominion will be established as fast as by its varied influences and agencies it crushes and scatters the "powers that be"-- civil and ecclesiastical--iron and clay.

  Prefer to use the post-1914 edition of the book? Here are listed the changes made in the post-1914 editions, as noted in the Watch Tower Reprints, p. 5649:

  CHANGES IN "SCRIPTURE STUDIES"
  We call attention to a few slight changes which have been
  made in four pages of Vol. II. and six pages of Vol. IIl.,
  "STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES." These are all trivial and do
  not alter the real sense and lesson, but conform to the facts
  as we have them today. The pages containing these corrections
  are as follows:
  Vol. II., page 77. line 1, "will be the farthest limit," reads will
  see the disintegration."
  Vol. II., page 77, line 6, "will obtain full universal control,"
  reads "will begin to assume control.’ ’
  Vol. II., page 77, linesl6,17, "end of A. D. 1914," reads "end
  of the overthrow."
  Vol. II., page 81, line 9, "can date only from A. D. 1914," reads
  "could not precede A. D. 1915."
  VoI. II., page 170, line 16, "at that time they will all be overturned.’
  ’*
  Vol. II., page 221, line 25, "full favor until A. D. 1914," reads
  "full favor until after 1915."
• 

  scholar

  Augustin

  Your comment is nonsense and demonstrates you know nothing about this subject. Celebrated WT scholars have always appled the seventy years to the Fall in 606/607 BCE until the Return in 536/537 BCE. I have read all of what scholars have said on this subject in the Journals and Bible commentaries published in English, soon my scope will extend to published articles in German. Have you read thus broadly? I think not because you are a Newbie to this forum. I t is correct to say that few scholars end the seventy years at the Return in 537 BCE, most scholars favour it ending in 539 BCE. However, the 'tricky bit' is the beginning of the period and therein lies the confusion because many scholars prefer 605 BCE rather than 609 BCE which does not give the allotted 'seventy' years.

  The comment by Grabbe on Furuli's scholarship says more about Grabbe's stature than Furuli's. He does admit to Furuli's academic qualifications who by the way is not a amateur scholar but is a paid professional employed by a University. Furuli's in his Introduction alerts the reader of his book to his range of expertise a fact that Grabbe overlooks/

  scholar JW