I deliberately started my analysis of the “70 years” with the death of Josiah, the great reforming king of Judah, for he casts a shadow forwards in time and gives meaning to the Babylonian Captivity.
According to the scribes and priests who recorded the Hebrew Scriptures, there was none greater than Josiah, for he rooted out the pagan and heathen religious practices of the surrounding nations.
This period of great reformation gave preeminent power and influence to the priestly class, which was naturally enjoyed by them, and also helped their political endeavors concerning the authority of Jerusalem. Jeremiah enjoyed his ministry during the reign of Josiah. The time of Josiah’s kingship saw the start of the compilation and redaction of the Hebrew Scriptures.
But the unexpected happened. Josiah confronted the new Pharaoh (Necho II) and was killed at Megiddo.
Four Judean kings succeeded Josiah, three of whom were his sons. Each reversed Josiah’s reforms, and the Bible records these kings as doing everything that was evil in the sight of Yahweh. They quickly undid the great reforms wrought by their father.
Jeremiah saw the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar as Yahweh’s instrument, punishing Judah for its spiraling spiritual decline. For this reason, the prophet Jeremiah told the people they had to accept the role that Babylon was playing on Yahweh’s behalf, and they would have to serve Babylon for 70 years (the length of a man’s life).
Thus Jeremiah saw that any attempt by Judah against this decreed servitude was an action against Yahweh’s decision, and would only result in an increase in the severity of their servitude. They could remain in their land, their city and its Temple could remain unscathed, as long as they accepted their punishment from Yahweh at the hand of Nebuchadnezzar and his son and grandson.
Thus Yahweh acted after Daniel who, after reading the letters from Jeremiah, pleaded on their behalf and confessed the errors of their ways.
The Jews owe their strict legalistic obedience to Yahweh to these 70 years of Babylon’s domination. The Jews have been determined that they will never again go into captivity. Nebuchadnezzar achieved what Josiah failed to do.
Doug
The "Seventy Years" explained
by Doug Mason 72 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Doug Mason
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John Doe
Did anyone else find the irony of post 3 coming right after post 2 to be funny?
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ellderwho
So your petty theory is bankrupt and needs a a shakeup which is what scholar will do and he will tear your theory to shreds.
scholar JW
All posts by Neil brings this phrase to mind "the empty can rattles the most." Sorry Neil you have neither "put up" or "shut up" which is why I have applied this mantra to you, and only you.
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Hellrider
So your petty theory is bankrupt and needs a a shakeup which is what scholar will do and he will tear your theory to shreds.
scholar JW
I just love it when he refers to himself in the third person...
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Quandry
Celebrated WT scholars have proved
I don't understand. In what way, or by whom, are they "celebrated?"
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AlanF
Scholar pretendus is so full of himself that it's both amusing and sad. He certainly is an empty, rattling can. This is especially evident when posters demand full, clear, scriptural explanations from him, and he refuses to quote and directly comment on any scriptures at all. All he can manage is limp responses like, "The Bible teaches blah blah blah" -- exactly the same thing that the Watchtower Society has often decried in its doctrinal opponents. This is exactly like young-earth creationists who claim, "The Bible clearly teaches that the universe was created in six literal days" but refuse to consider the many mitigating factors that old-earth creationists bring to bear.
AlanF
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Doug Mason
I have been asked by “Scholar” to answer these questions that I had posed to him:
On what day of which month did your “70 years” end?
On what day of which month did your “70 years” start?
On what day of which month did the WTS’s “2520 years” end?
On what day of which month did the Great War start?These questions are of consequence only to that group of old men in Brooklyn, not to Christians or to Jews.
- When did the “70 years” end?
This was a period of servitude by Judah and her neighbors to Babylon, which ended when Babylon fell.
Shortly after the Fall, when Daniel had understood from Jeremiah’s letters the 70 years of “chorbah” that was to be experienced by Jerusalem, Daniel “turned to the Lord God and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes. [Daniel] prayed to the LORD [his] God and confessed” (Daniel 9:3-4, NIV). Daniel recognized the situation and the need for him to confess on behalf of the people.
Because the 70 years of servitude by Judah and her neighbours had come to its end, and because of Daniel’s prayer to God, the people were permitted to return to their homeland.
- When did the “70 years” start?
Religiously, the start of the “70 years” is associated with the death of Josiah and the ensuing rapid reversal of his reforms.
Politically, the start of the “70 years” is associated with the demise of Assyria, the decline of Egypt and the rise of Babylon as world powers.
While Nebuchadnezzar was seen by Jeremiah as the instrument used by Yahweh to punish Judah for the spiritual decline following Josiah’s death, Jeremiah is significantly not specific whether there was one event that triggered the start of their servitude. This is clearly not significant, or Yahweh would have ensured that information would be provided. The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple were unnecessary for the “70 years” to be completed.
It is likely that the trigger was Nebuchadnezzar’s defeat of Necho and the ensuing transfer of allegiance by Judah from Egypt to Babylon. It is also possible that the trigger might have been Nebuchadnezzar’s accession to the throne or Jeremiah might have backdated the start to the death of Jeremiah’s reformist king Josiah. It does not matter. The significance is in the lessons that were taught. For the Christian it is “come out of Babylon, my people”, for that is where God’s people are.
- When did the 2520 years end?
This period is a figment of the imagination of those old men in Brooklyn.
All agree, including those old men in Brooklyn, that the dream of Nebuchadnezzar had its fulfillment in him. But these old men add that the fulfillment was itself another prophecy. Fascinating as a theory, except they hang everything on that thin thread. See my diagram on page 2 of http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/knight_jump_hermeneutic.pdf
- When did the Great War commence?
Jesus warned his disciples against deceivers who would claim to be “Christ” (anointed ones), who would use signs such as wars, earthquakes and famines as signs of
- the Parousia and the end of the Jewish age (Matthew 24)
- the destruction of the temple (Mark 13, Luke 21).
These events are obviously the same.
“Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ, and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.” (Matthew 24:4-6; have a look also at Mark 13:5-7; Luke 21:8-9)
Doug
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aniron
So your petty theory is bankrupt and needs a shakeup which is what scholar will do and he will tear your theory to shreds
scholar JW
How many times have we heard that and still are waiting.
Celebrated WT scholars
Who the hell are they? What are their names? What are their qualifications?
If Carl Jonsson had published his book without naming souces or scholars. But just said "celebrated scholars, the facts show, " without naming anyone or any source.
You can be sure that "so-called Scholar" would be one of the first demanding where and from who he got his information. Hypocrite!
And don't use the old line that the "celebrated WT scholars" wanted to be anonymous so Jehovah could have the honour.
There is no honour in hiding.
If they wanted to bring "honour to Jehovah" then they should be named, their qualifications made known. So the rest of the worlds true scholars can test their theories. IF they are right then Jehovah will get the honour. Or do they hide knowing the doubts they have over this doctrine of 607.
Judging by the way the WT has been down on education at this years conventions. I would say that soon there won't be any "celebrated WT scholars" because no one will have got past High School education level.
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KW13
Anyone here battling away on behalf of the Society, on about 607 BCE has either not looked at the evidence honestly or they are scared to admit the truth to themselves. I've looked at the evidence myself, and i've compared it to what the Society says and there is no doubt in my mind that the Society are making things up just to support their own crumbling doctrine.
The fact is Jehovahs Witnesses (who i might add have been told to avoid sites such as this by their own organization) are here, it is not the other way around with me, chasing you. You can not accept people dont agree with what you believe and teach, that is clear otherwise what are you doing?
I can live quite happily, getting on with my life, looking forward to my son coming, enjoying being married without giving a damn about what other people think of me and my beliefs. This site is a way for me to pass spare time, it does not dominate my life like your religion and fanatical beliefs dominate yours.
As many have asked...who are these celebrated scholars because i for one have never heard of them, when i was a witness and now that i am not.
Before anyone here considers getting into an arguement with any of these people over dates, prophecy etc ask them first do they accept that the society in the past has made mistakes and got things wrong, because its only on that basis that any decent conversation/arguement can - if someone chooses to blindly follow and not believe that the Society has made serious errors in the past, they are clearly not sound in mind.
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poppers
"Did anyone else find the irony of post 3 coming right after post 2 to be funny?"
Yup. Now, time to pop some corn and watch the show.