Sincere?..Bible-Believers-Can Your Beliefs Be Supported Without The Bible? (page 6)

AlphaOmega

Great commentary JT and AO
No point me putting my twopennorth in as I'd have been more or less saying the same as AO. Perhaps you are right James, maybe the Bible might be something else which clouds the 'whisper', there may come a time on my journey when I can let that go, much as I did with *religion*, but for now, I see there is truth within the pages which help me on this particular stage of my journey.
I have metaphorically jumped of the cliff - yes, let go of absolutely everything, experienced total, indescribable blackness with my entire being - I cannot explain how or why my fall was broken by a 'branch' (To me, God. To you, whatever) on the way down, but I was left with a completely different perspective on life. I don't believe I'll land at the bottom off the cliff until I leave this plane of existence and when I make that last short jump, I will neither land with a thud or end up in several pieces!
peace

Amazing - I could have said that myself !

My "awakening" came a month before my "darkness". Then God (however you perceive him) sort of revealed himself as working in my life during the darkness - and as he did, patches of the darkness became the clearest parts of my life allowing me to "see through and beyond" them into another world.

... that world was not a world of churches, clerical clothing and liturgical teachings - it was the world of the truth which is buried deep beneath those things - a spiritual x-ray vision if you will.

JamesThomas

Sad emo,

What I am referring to is what you truly are. The Bible or any objective thing, can not give you what you are. The only thing anything or anyone can do, is point back at you.

I suggest going deeper than "blackness". What sees the blackness? What exist that every thing, even blackness can exist? I suggest you saw off the limb which stopped you.

j

AlphaOmega

AlphaOmega:
I just find it "hard" to even want to let go of the Bible, when that is the very thing that has got me to my open mindedness.
There is an wise old Buddhist saying: One uses a boat to get to the other side of the river, then it is abandoned that we may go on our way. (or something like that...and I'm not selling Buddhism here). Who/what is this "me" who has "open mindedness"? What we want to find out is do you exist as is believed? Who/what are you, really? What is real?
You can look and see (depending on where you are in your journey)
What is seeing? Turn 180 from the Bible you hold in your hand. What is the authentic and genuine reality that is seeing these words right now? Do you see what I'm getting at? Bibles, words, thoughts, teachings, beliefs and all other objects only distract from a valid inner investigation. But don't believe me, see it clearly first hand.
You are at a very critical time as you see that there is a propensity to not let go. This is a good sign. See more. See what is not you. See that all the thoughts ever believed about "self" are not that which sees all the thoughts....and gently let go of them. New stuff and older stuff will arise to lay claim on you, gently see it for what it is (not you), and let go of it.
I have found it is a journey of subtraction. We truly already are the purity and wholeness we seek; it is all the erroneous shit that blinds us. See. Clearly see what is false, and what remains is True. It's You. That's all. It's very simple. Don't need Bibles and books to add to you. Don't need religion or gurus to give you something. Don't need to travel anywhere. Just see. Quietly and gently see. It is your sincerity and earnestness which will fuel this journey to where you already are.

Sorry to quote your entire post, but it's gets a bit complicated here. It's difficult to know who is replying to what

Sometimes I feel so "in touch" with the universe around me that I am certain that if I took that leap off the cliff, I would gently melt into the ground below - as it is me - I am it - we are one.

Othertimes, I would be a mess of strawberry jam and bones at the bottom of the cliff !

Re "what is real", I said something similar on a thread the other day also started by NVRGNBK

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/136593/1.ashx

I said...

Without any indoctrination (Biblical, Religious or SOCIAL), I would be more flexible as to what WAS real. Without having the belief in magic "educated" out of me, and without social constructs telling me what was real and what typical cause and effects are, I would probably conclude that :
Nothing was real BUT
Everything is as real as the experience of experiencing it

I guess that what you are saying is "Be still and know that I am God" (from Psalm 46:10)

but meaning "Be still and know that : I am God" with " I " being me ??

bernadette

JamesThomas

I have been following your beautiful words here - but I have a question. How does the cruelty and distructiveness in nature fit in with a loving reality?

thanks

bernadette

Sad emo

James

The Bible or any objective thing, can not give you what you are. The only thing anything or anyone can do, is point back at you.

I agree - they don't give me anything - they show me who I am and what I have the potential to become. Should I refuse the assistance offered?

I suggest going deeper than "blackness". What sees the blackness? What exist that every thing, even blackness can exist?

My answer to that would still be God!! In Him I live and move and have my being.

I suggest you saw off the limb which stopped you.

Thanks - but I'm enjoying the view for now! I'm enjoying being who I am in this moment, the branch will know when I am ready to complete the drop

AO - yep it's fantastic! I do still attend a church, but can see beyond all the ritual and formalities - aids to worship but not the sum total.

JamesThomas

I'm in the middle of preparing for making a batch of plum jam, so this will be quick.

Alpha:

meaning "Be still and know that : I am God" with " I " being me ??

Exactly. It's a universal truth, not a relative one. However, "I" is not the individual little "I" that is believed to be. It's not an ego trip.

Bernadette:

How does the cruelty and distructiveness in nature fit in with a loving reality?

Good question. There is an underlying non-duality, a wholeness and purity that you are that is untouched by the dualistic nature of phenominal expression. There has to be a first hand realisation of this for it to make sense. It has to be seen or it can sound cold and crazy. Seeing the oneness which holds all existence, actually opens deeper compassion and understanding. You are one with the bitter and the sweet.

There is a totally unconditional and nonjudgmental purity from which an infinite expression of life unfolds. It is not hindered by any judgments or concern for what we call "good" and "bad". This Purity, is what you are; what all is. When the underlying reality is clearly seen, there is a realization that you are all life, yet more importantly you are the pristine consciousness which all life exist within.

Does this make sense? Poppers could probably express it more clearly. He has a very poetic way about it.

j

nvrgnbk

I accept what you say and I like your style.

Sorry. AO's an imposter! No Christian talks like that. LOL!

AlphaOmega

JamesThomas...

I being the "collective" I

Okay words fail now so here are some pictures...

JamesThomas...

alt

NVR...

I accept what you say and I like your style.
Sorry. AO's an imposter! No Christian talks like that. LOL!

Cute !

There are some of us around. But to make you feel more comfortable with the typical "Christian Output", here is your picture... alt

Sad Emo - Instead of a picture, you have a PM

bernadette

thanks JamesThomas - gnosticism seems have to some pointers to what you are describing and I was also reading something about emanations of unfolding reality. But the important thing is not to cling or become attached to human descriptions and definitions.

aniron

How did Christians in early days support their beliefs without a Bible?

Sincere?..Bible-Believers-Can Your Beliefs Be Supported Without The Bible?

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