For those who've settled on 'no contact' with their JW families . . .

by Madame Quixote 34 Replies latest social family

  • trevor
    trevor

    The only way to deal with that is to realise that I don't actually want contact with them again. Their conditional love is worthless to me.

    sass-my-frass

    For as long as we place value on family that shun us we will hurt, miss them and want things to be different. The pain stops when we realize that they have no longer have any value to us. They once had huge value but have now become worthless.

    Would we really want to spend our free time after a weeks work with people who hold such negative thoughts, about us and the world, in their heads? Understanding that we have changed and moved on to another place in life that they can not join us in is the first step.

    Admitting that we don't want them to join us in their present state of mind is the next step. Then we welcome the fact that they stay away from us and allow us to make new friends and succeed in that new place. Moving on has to be done totally to half move on is to be caught in the in between.

    I have been told by my family that if there is a change in Watchtower policy, they may one day be able to see me again. I have told them that if they remain in their discredited religion I am not prepared to associate with them. Having yet another change of policy will not be enough for me to consider them worthwhile people to spend my time with.

    trev

  • rose petal
    rose petal

    I don't see my sons. I am like a mother to a daughter in law. My son, like his father, was and is abusive even though they are separated. Every now and then my grandson (6) says to me, "do you love dad"? I just say, yes, but I don't like him very much at the moment. I don't really miss the abusive one, I do miss the younger one, he was like my side of the family, so we had more in common.

    But, if he turns up one day, he turns up. I have a partner, and some wonderful friends, plus grandkids.

    Life is good,

    rose petal

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    Not worth it ... here's an example when I went back to my hometown for a visit with my non-JW dad:


    One of my sisters lives near my dad and is a hardcore damaged JW and has nothing to do with my dad.

    I figured if I didn't call they would accuse me of not even calling when I was in town. So I called [my JW sister] and left a message, and she finally called me back after a couple of hours. I was driving, but I pulled over on the side of the road to talk to her.

    After some very brief (like 30 seconds) idle chit-chat, she finally says, "I don't know what to make of your phone call."

    Me: "What do you mean?"

    Her: "Well, are you up here for Christmas?"

    Me: "We're up here to visit Dad."

    Her: "For Christmas?"

    Me: "Well, we will be here DURING Christmas, yes."

    (Note: I knew what she was getting at and she wasn't rattling me. I was trying to let her work out her logic to me.)

    She says, "Well, I saw the pictures of the girl's Easter Egg hunt so I know you are doing pagan holidays. You are an apostate and have turned your back on the true God you were raised with. I love you, but you have let Satan into your heart."

    Me (after snickering - which I didn't mean to do): "[Sis], I know we have differences but I was hoping that natural affection for your family would take over and we could put our differences aside and we could get along for the sake of the kids."

    Her: "If you would like to meet me somewhere with the kids I can take them and they can all play together, but I can't be around you because you are dangerous."

    Me: "No, it's a package deal. It's either me and the kids, or it's none of us."

    Her: "I figured you would say that and that is too bad, because I know the kids would really like to play together. The boys heard the phone message and know their cousins are in town. But since you have turned your back on Jehovah, I cannot have anything to do with you. You are dangerous."

    Me: "I'm dangerous? The whole reason I left [our town] quietly is so that family members would not accuse me of trying to destroy their faith. Now, despite that, you are STILL calling me dangerous?"

    Her: "Yes, you were raised with the Truth.You were raised to love the true God Jehovah and you dedicated your life to him. But you have basically turned your back on him and because of that, cannot have you in my house. You have completely hurt our entire family by your actions because we love you so much."

    Me: "[Sis], what am I supposed to do if I found 100% irrefutable proof that the religion I was raised in is not what it claims to be? Am I supposed to just stick it out because I dedicated myself to it?"

    (Note: This is the logic they use to get people from other religions to leave a religion and join the JWs. But apparently that logic ceases to exist if applied to themselves.)

    Her (after a pause and some slight stammering): "Well ... yes ... I guess you do. You made a dedication to Jehovah and you have turned your back on him and are now doing pagan things. I love you but I can't associate with you."

    Me: "Well, that's unfortunate, but you treated [my wife and kids and me] all like crap when we were supposedly going to meetings and doing everything we were supposed to. So for me it's not as big a loss I guess, but I was hoping the kids could at least hang out together for awhile."

    Her: (After a pause) "I know. I know I have problems with cutting people off emotionally. But I do love you - I know I do cut people off emotionally and it is something I am working on. Me even calling you back is showing how much I love you and I was praying that you would have a change of heart. I know I do cut people off emotionally though."

    Me: "I know you do too. But being a witness requires that you cut people off emotionally. It's called having no natural affection."

    Her: "I do have natural affection. But I cannot be around someone who has turned their back on Jehovah. I need to protect my faith."

    Me: "Look, I just wanted to come see your new house and "

    Her: "I want you to come see our house too, but the scriptures say that someone that leaves the truth should not even be having a meal with such a person."

    Me: "That is not what the scripture says, it says do not eat with any fornicators. I have not fornicated with anyone!"

    Her: "That's what it says. Not even a meal."

    Me: "Yeah, for fornicators. But I haven't fornicated with anyone."

    Her: "You are celebrating pagan holidays so that is fornicating with false religion."

    (Note: This is a typical method of almost seamlessly adding to scripture to make it say something it really didn't.)

    Her: "With the poor choices you have made over the past year, it has really caused me to re-examine my faith and to really look at what I believe. I have looked at tons of secular books as well as the bible and it has done nothing but reaffirm my faith."

    (Note: She didn't even hint at what she looked up - which I have found to be typical. No one ever is willing to tell me.)

    Me: "You didn't look hard enough."

    Her: "I did look hard enough and I am completely satisfied. I looked at secular books and I looked at the bible and where they differed I go with the bible because the bible is inspired of god."

    Me: "So do I. I go with the bible on those differences too."

    Her: "Whoa, no, don't even start with me [Ithinkisee]. I'm not gonna have these kinds of apostate conversations with you."

    Me: "Like I said, I was just hoping that natural affection for your family would take over and we could just enjoy each other's company as brother and sister and the cousins could all hang out together."

    Her: "Jesus said that the truth would divide families."

    (Note: I don't recall Jesus saying it would be a bragging point that a religion would be proud of.)

    Me: "Every religion uses that line on their members to keep them in! If you go to an ex-Mormon website you will find the exact same lines from Mormons to keep their members in line."

    Her: "I don't visit those kinds of sites. Visiting sites like that is dangerous to your faith but apparently you are willing to visit them."

    Me: "I said ex-MORMON websites. Not ex-JW websites."

    Her: "I know. I said I don't visit those sites."

    Me: "An ex-Mormon site? You wouldn't visit an ex-Mormon site?"

    Her: "No, because it is dangerous to my faith. I am not going to visit any site that could be a detriment to my faith."

    Me: (Pretty much speechless at what I had just heard) "[Sis] , I wish I was recording this so you could hear how ridiculous you sound."

    Her: "Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. But you are an apostate [Ithinkisee]. I love you, but you are an apostate and Satan has got a hold of you."

    Me: "Well, I'll be sure and tell my kids you said that about their dad."

    Her: "I'm sure you will. But remember that the girls are always welcome here because they never dedicated their lives to Jehovah like you did. That is why I can't see you."

    (Note: My dad is not "dedicated" to Jehovah, but she'll have nothing to do with him either.)

    Me: "And when we head up to Grandma and Grandpa's I'll make sure to tell them that you said I am diabolical and Satanic."

    (Our grandparents are not JWs and do not like JWs at all, but have kept their mouths shut for decades just so they can see their grandkids.)

    Her: "Yeah, I bet you'll just love going up there and telling them all this."

    Me: "I'm not the one making the accusations. I am just speaking the truth."

    Her: (After a bit of a pause, her voice shaking) "I ... love ... Grandma and Grandpa SO MUCH and I always have."

    Me: "So do I!"

    Her: (Her voice turns contemptuous) "YOU DO NOT! You and [my other JW sister] BOTH say that you love them but you don't love them like I love them! You and [my other JW sister] pretty much have NOTHING to do with them and I do stuff with them all the time. You are just using them now to divide the family."

    (Note: But remember, she said the truth divides families. I am only speaking the truth. Also, never mind the fact that she lives an hour away and me and my other sister lived 3700 miles away in the complete opposite corner of the U.S. - It has always been hard to visit being that far away.)

    Her: ".. and you are lazy! You are just lazy! You couldn't cut it and you didn't want to do all that Jehovah required of you. Requirements that you DEDICATED YOUR LIFE TO! You need to HUMBLE YOURSELF and come back to Jehovah before it's too late!"

    (Note: It's lazy to walk away from all you have ever known and start over completely from scratch? That is easy? That is taking the lazy way out?)

    Me: "I need to humble myself? I'm not the one that is saying I have absolute truth and all the answers. It is neither faithful, nor discreet, or humble to say that you have ALL THE ANSWERS. That is not humility. That is arrogance. Not even the supposedly evil Christendom has the arrogance to proclaim that. They do not say, 'You have to be a member of our church or you will die!'"

    Her: "Of course not, that's because in the churches people just like to have their ears tickled. They don't want to have to do anything."

    Me: "[Sis], you are just speaking in buzzwords and lines lifted directly from the Watchtower. None of this sounds like it is coming from your heart."

    Her: "Well I believe it with all my heart, so if it sounds like they are just lines that is because those things are in my heart."

    [there was more, but I don't remember it all at the moment]

    Her: "This conversation has probably already gone on longer than it should have. I love you and I love your girls, and they are always welcome here, but you are not."

    Me: "Like I said, I was hoping natural affection for your family would take over. But apparently it won't."

    [Some sort of awkward goodbyes and final digs at each other and we hung up.]



    Fun stuff.

    -ithinkisee

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    It is not a religion for honest scrutiny, that is for sure.

    My family right now is in a fight over who will see the first great grandchild; my son and his wife had a beautiful baby girl. He is df'd, many years. He also dragged himself up from the bottom of the deepest hole, graduated college and has a successful job and career.

    NOT enough to allow Grandma to be in the same room as him; she wants to see here great grand child, but NOT my son.
    This is the same Grandma that asked all of her daughters and sons in law to go to weddings in churches, the up and down routine, the funerals in churches, the family dinners with her relatives where they sang the doxology prayer. SAME person.

    But when it comes to seeing her grandson even long enough to visit her new great grand daughter, the answer is NO.

    I have lost my patience with it.

    How long can a person stay quiet, and not just come out and challenge such hypocrisy?

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    BTTT - how about another try, Madame?

    CoCo

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote

    Oh dear me! No thanks, CoCo. Although I think I will send the mother's day card that congratulates my mom for bringing up such a perfect child - me!

    ithinkisee, thanks for taking the time to post that conversation, so redolent of the same verses and lines of conversations I too have endured.

    trevor - very good points; I felt a twinge of "but why so black and white with them always"? Because, it's the way they are and the way they want to be; not the way I want to be.

    sassmyfrass - it is good to be reminded that conditional love isn't love anyway.

    Gretchen - sounds like your parents and mine are clones. thanks for the reminders.

    garybuss - I don't like the idea of an olive branch up my butt, either! Thanks for the humor.

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote
    Long story short, he says that if I had come after him or tried to send him stuff to read, letters or emails, that he wouldn't have listened. The fact that I was living my life peacefully gave him pause.

    Frank75 - I know this is also true of my family. Better to let sleeping dogs lie, especially after my mailing of silentlambs lit to them was called hate mail. They are just impossible to reach unless they want to be reached, I guess.

    Noni1974 - I wish more JW families were like yours, too, but I guess they are not and that's a large part of the reason for this board. I am happy you are able to maintain some kind of relationship with your loved ones without it being abusive.

    looking glass, pistoff and rosepetal - it is sad that so many of our families have such nasty dysfunctional behaviours in common; it is also nice to know that we can build and rely on the families of choice that we have, not just our families of birth.

    bumblebee - yeah, I think I am not prepared to face more of the same old, same old, which would be unjust treatment by them of me.

  • RichieRich
    RichieRich

    I had trouble with this for a while, but then I was honest with myself

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/127933/1.ashx

    If I'm not worth being loved, then I'm not going to bother trying to love.

    Of course, there was a ton of abuse issues with my mom, but no contact is the best way for us to do things.

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote
    If I'm not worth being loved, then I'm not going to bother trying to love.

    I think that is what the jws and our jw families really believe about us and it is a challenge to combat it, especially if we stay in contact with them and if we maintain in our hearts and minds that the connection to them is still meaningful somehow, as Trevor was saying.

    I think that is where I have been stuck for a very long time - in not being able to accept that a relationship with any of them is in fact meaningless. It makes it impossible to "bother trying to love" when one feels or believes (however unconscious it may be) that one's abusers are a necessity or that we can change them somehow. Intellectually, I know it isn't true that I am worthless, but emotionally, I have that loss of self-esteem so deeply entrenched.

    I come here always hoping to find a loved one, it seems. It isn't my only motivation for being here, but lately an over-arching backdrop.

    Good grief, Richie, your mom was a real pill. And I thought my mother was a you-know-what! You poor dear! Glad you got away from her and from her cult; hope things are going well for you, your wife, and your dad (who has the misfortune of being married still to your mother). Thank goodness we don't have to marry our parents, though the jws would like us to think we must!

  • IsaacJS2
    IsaacJS2

    I am not close to my family for other reasons. My parents are not JWs. The worst relationship is with my father.

    To give an example of why, he came up to my mobile home after I first moved out on my own (about 12 years ago) and tried to rip my front door off its hinges with a crowbar. He's kinda famous for pulling this sort of stunt. I caught him and confronted him at the door. He said I hadn't called him in 3 weeks and he thought I must be sick, so he'd better break in and help me. Yeah right. I stared him down until he walked away. Note that he demanded I call him every single day of every single week during the move (I refused) and that he would leave 10 or 20 messages on my answering machine every few days if I didn't do whatever he wanted. The messages were not pleasant. Most of them were "to be continued" because the message timed out, so he'd call back and pick up from where he left off. Some of his diatribes would run on for 3 or more calls before he was done.

    The crowbar thing was a stunt, of course. Meant to intimidate, to control. That's what he does. He knows its wrong, but he can't stop himself. This only makes it even worse because he has to justify his insane behavior by overcompensating with outrageous displays of hurt feelings. He showed up several times where I work and began to rant and rave, for instance. My father can be charming, so many of his friends probably think I'm dirt for avoiding him 99% of the time. But he can't help himself when I'm actually around. He went on and on about how I could "have it all" if only I wanted to race/tinker with hotrods the way he does. Problem is, I'm not too interested in that sort of thing. I'm a computer nerd. So what? But it's important that I do what he wants, not the other way around. He often demanded that I take an interest in things he wanted to do, then lost it when I complied. (I was only a kid, so I couldn't tell him no yet) For him to come to me about spending time together would have put me in charge, so he tried to reverse it in some twisted way. Can't have that. He needs to know that he can make me crawl, and I refuse to indulge him. That drives him bonkers.

    Has he ever tried to connect with me by doing something I want or meeting me halfway? Nope, it's got to be me who defers to him. But he will tell any lie to me, about me, whatever--to get whatever he wants. He isn't afraid to use blackmail or to turn other people against me. I have never asked him for any favors, even when I literally had no money to buy food because I had lost my job. If I had, he would have thrown up a line of hurdles for me to jump through. "Do this, then I'll help. Okay, now do this, and maybe I'll help. No, not yet. Maybe this time..." Somehow, the help just never comes. To be honest, I wouldn't feel right about crawling to him like this anyway. I think it would be messed up for me to only go to him when I need something, so I don't bother. He's been like this since I was a kid. He basically makes my life too miserable to even contemplate. I do not feel guilty about avoiding him. He knows I have good reasons for doing this, deep down I think.

    I have other relatives that have caused problems, like a crazy ex-stepfather and one whole side of my family that blames me for my mother divorcing him. I have pretty much cut all of them off. The only one I remain close to is my mother. Guess I'm a Momma's boy, but truth is she's all I have in the way of family. Sad, but I have no regrets about avoiding them. It would be nice to have a family once in a while, but I think this is part of how I got into the WT to begin with--for a time, the WT was my surrogate family. I have never had a traditional sense of family in the way others speak of.

    As you can imagine, between my family and the WT, I tend to resent it when someone tries to get me to do something in a sneaky way or to play with my head.

    Crap. Sorry about the long post.

    IsaacJ

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit