finding friends outside the Borg - a Scary thought

by lydia 68 Replies latest jw friends

Bgurltryal

Goodness. I had no idea what i wrote would cause this. I'm sorry i created such feelings in people.
I was writting in BASED ON MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES. Insidentally my boyfriend is bboyneko (hence my knight in shinning armour coming to my rescue here). As you see not the boohoo whiner i speak of.
I speak of my own mindset in the past.(personal boohooing ahead) I spent eyons feeling terrible for so much of the crap in my life when one of my friends told me the horror of his life and i realised it was time to get up and try to carry on. Before that many people did not enjoy my company. It's unpleasant to be with someone who spends day after day focusing on the negative and now and then i feel this site can promote that. I went to a psycologist at one point. It was helpful for a while in the time that i wanted self pity. But then I was tiered of feeling bad constantly and ultimately i left. There can be a point where you can say I'm ready to stop helping myself and ready to start helping others.(personal boohooing ended)
I never called anyone on the board a boohooer. the question in the topic was this:
Has anyone else found that the teaching of the "outside world" being a "bad Association" limits your involvement and ability to make new freinds?
If so how have you overcome this and any suggestions to helping those suffering from these feelings?
In reply I first stated that though not a JW i see a certain mindset from people everywhere.I then said that INSTEAD OF HAVING THIS TYPE OF MINDSET(insert mindset A) HAVE THIS ONE INSTEAD(insert mindset B) and you may attract more people to you. I spoke of a change in mindset. It was a mere suggestion. You are all very welcome to ignore it. I know i did. as the saying goes 'when the student is ready the teacher will apear' (summit like that) It's almost like people read what they want. What...you're worldly?...you must be writing something evil!!!
I don't think it's hostility as much as nasty sarcasm that seems to be directed at my comments. My step father would use this method to feel superiority over me and belittle me. If you must use this to feel happy in responding to me do so. I chose not to as it only ends in my own feelings of sadness that i have caused someone else pain.I hope I am able to write my opinion without too much anger injected into my own words. Now come ooooon...I had smiley faces and jokes decorating my post. Do i really look like I'm trying to write something evil? I collect toys and watch the powerpuff girls for peets sake!
I came here to learn about the horror of the life of the most important person in my life before we met. I can never KNOW what it's like but the more i learn the more i can hopefully understand him a little more. Every now and then, based on all the things i have learnt, inside and outside of this discusion board, I try to give a differing perspective. 'possibly to someone who doesn't know any better and who has no idea of your painful history you may come across like so. Perhaps trying to come across in a different way may help you to cope, and hopefully thrive, in this world you feal so strange to'
Almost like having a spy from the other side. Like having a guy friend who tells you what the poop goes through their heads sometimes.
But ,if you don't find it useful, then you know my name, you know I'm worldly, you know to ignore my future posts.
tyydyy

BBoyneko is your boyfreind? I never would have guessed it in a million years. I mean his arguements were sooooooo unbiased and reasonable. I'm shocked!
Tim B
bboyneko 2

tim, just like your unbiased arguments about sending your own daughter to model search america. Also, knowing my gf i know she dosent think of JW suffering as something light and trifle but rather an unalterable permanant scar that will always be part of our psyche.
Tatiana

I went back and slowly read Bgurl's post, to see if I still felt offended as I did last night. I did.
I'm not trying to belittle anything anyone has been through but EVERYONE, in my experience, has had some awful thing or other happen to them throughout their life.
This is true, bgurl. And we all know this. I have friends who had terrible things happen to them as children and adults. I don't think you will find anyone here who would ever belittle a "worldly" (I use this term not as an insult, but just as a 'word') person's bad experiences, as you have ours. Your quote says you aren't, but the rest of your post clearly shows it.
What you have to remember is that in addition to being "cultisized" for 20/30 years, we also have been molested, seen our children/mothers/fathers/wives/husbands die right before our eyes over the blood issue, seen friends and loved ones commit suicide, been shunned for no other reason than we had different ideas, been physically abused (as I was) by our parents and husbands. And this was condoned by the society.
Maybe a mindset less 'boohoo, i have been screwed over and noone other than a JW could possibly understand my pain' and more of 'I, like many others in the world, have had a uniquely horrifying experience that i will share with those who show interest and possibly educate someone to the horror that can occur due to being a JW to those who might otherwise remain ignorant' would be a better mindset.
I think most of us here do share our experiences with friends who show interest. Along with my boo-hooing, I do my best to make sure no one I know ever becomes involved with this cult. And I am working very hard right now to get my niece out of it. A friend just the other day told me he always thought JWS were very nice and didn't see anything wrong with them. He said he always talked to them when they came to his door. When I got through telling him what they were really like, he had a different viewpoint.
Instead of thinking of people outside your former religon as 'worldly' think of them as people just like you with their own stories of pain and happiness to share. Some of whom you will get along with and alot of whom you will never have a friendship with. But learning about anyone, regardless of weather the great friendship materialises, is a rewarding experience.
"Worldly" is a term that was drilled into our minds for so many years, to me it just refers to anyone who never was a witness, or left the org. I don't use the term to insult. I don't think of the word as representing "evil" people. I don't think Xena meant that at all. That's the problem. We, as former witnesses, realize that when we say this word, we are not belittling ones who were never in the org. If you have never lived in our shoes, you will not understand this. I'm sorry, but if you have never been part of a cult, you will not be "just like us". I feel your above statement was condescending.
I think JWs are spoilt with this instant friendship that acompanies joining the organization. In the real world it just isn't that easy. You need alot of confidence and balls to go out and offer you emotions to possible rejection. But it's worth it when you find one or a few people you can truely connect with.
Believe me, Bgurl, when I tell you we, of all people, KNOW this. And if there's one thing we DO have, it's BALLS. We chose to leave a cult and be shunned/ostracized/rejected, by all we loved and held dear. Rather than stay and be or have hypocritical friends. We understood what the real meaning of friendship was, or we would all still be there.
True friends are earned through work and exposing your self, you feelings and thoughts with others. They are not handed to you on a plate with a set of beleif systems.
To me, this too, read like another insult. Somehow you seem to think we have no idea how to do this. I think we know even more so what true friends are. And how very important it is to find them. We have the BALLS to go out and try to make new friends, even after all the rejection. All the disillusion. All the people who think we are
a little odd
.
sometimes you ex's can seem a little odd to one who has never experienced such 'programming'. Your thought processes are sometimes confusing to someone who has grown up with only logical thought. Also exhisting in such a confusing place with so many limitations is bound to cause alot of psycological oddities you may not even be aware of that others may think odd without an understanding of your history.
Here you contradict what you said earlier. We are "just like everyone else". You say yourself, in this quote, that ones who have never experienced "programming" will not understand. Bgurl, we are VERY aware of our oddities. Even with an understanding of our history, we are still considered odd by some. And yet we have the courage to go out and make friends. Bear our souls. Work through the anger. Help others. And still boo-hoo on the board to ones we KNOW will understand.
I know Xena did not mean anything as an insult. She is a very kind person. And if anyone DOESN'T think "worldly" people are "evil", it's her!
But, I felt insulted by your words also. And that was after sleeping on them all night and re-reading them this morning. Sorry, but I think if you continue to read here, you'll see alot more boo-hooing before we're done.
April
"Love never dies." Voivodul Vlad Draculea (from Bram Stoker's Dracula-1992)
Billygoat

*standing ovation to April*
Thank you dear for saying everything so simply! You said everything I wanted to say and didn't have the words for. Woohoo! Thank you!
Andi
bboyneko 2

She is a very kind person.

From the obsenities hurled at me from her i wouldnt agree with that at all.
also, you refer to bgurls post about balls to make friends, you ignore her post that says she has great respect for us as x-jws for having the balls to leave the organization.
basically, every x-jw I know personally is very fucked up including me, and although you say we are very aware of our oddities, sometimes we dont even realize half of them. I had to fight off a prejudice against homosexuals for a while for example, and found that I was extremley selfish in my actions because of my JW upbringing.
Also, right after leaving the JW's you are very very vulnerable to falling into other cults. I personally almost fell into the International Church of Christ even more than a year after leaving the JW's. I almost fell for some multi-level marketing scams. Stuff like Quixtar. (im waiting for someone to post that quixtar is a great business and that if I had invested in it personally id see that it was wonderful etc etc.)
It does leave scars and I personally have boo-hooed about it quite a bit. Just last halloween i started crying because I saw all the kids in cosutmes trick or treating and I felt robbed of my childhood. I cry jus about every christmas. Nuthin wrong with it and theres alot of real pain.
But really, how many people did YOU offend while a Jehovahs Witness? How many people's religions did YOU belittle and how many feelings did you hurt and how many lifes did you help ruin while a JW. He who has not sinned cast the first stone....
Just remember where you came from and try to be a little more peacable with those that bear you no ill will.
Tatiana

Just remember where you came from and try to be a little more peacable with those that bear you no ill will.

Right back to you, bboy.
(edited to fix smiley face!!)
April
"Love never dies." Voivodul Vlad Draculea (from Bram Stoker's Dracula-1992)
Bgurltryal

Sorry...i wrote alot.
This is true, bgurl. And we all know this. I have friends who had terrible things happen to them as children and adults. I don't think you will find anyone here who would ever belittle a "worldly" (I use this term not as an insult, but just as a 'word') person's bad experiences, as you have ours. Your quote says you aren't, but the rest of your post clearly shows it.
What you have to remember is that in addition to being "cultisized" for 20/30 years, we also have been molested, seen our children/mothers/fathers/wives/husbands die right before our eyes over the blood issue, seen friends and loved ones commit suicide, been shunned for no other reason than we had different ideas, been physically abused (as I was) by our parents and husbands. And this was condoned by the society.
You JUST did belittle others experiences. You just said 'yes everyone else has had something terrible happen but OUR experiences are worse'
"Worldly" is a term that was drilled into our minds for so many years, to me it just refers to anyone who never was a witness, or left the org. I don't use the term to insult. I don't think of the word as representing "evil" people. I don't think Xena meant that at all. That's the problem. We, as former witnesses, realize that when we say this word, we are not belittling ones who were never in the org. If you have never lived in our shoes, you will not understand this. I'm sorry, but if you have never been part of a cult, you will not be "just like us". I feel your above statement was condescending.
Again. You are the one with the condesending attitude. 'You will never know what we go through so your advise is deemed useless'
My point in that particular statement is that if you sit in a corner because you think you're different you will be seen as different by those who don't know why you are in the corner.I never said everyone IS just like you i said 'think of them as people just like you'I was speaking of a state of mind.
Believe me, Bgurl, when I tell you we, of all people, KNOW this. And if there's one thing we DO have, it's BALLS. We chose to leave a cult and be shunned/ostracized/rejected, by all we loved and held dear. Rather than stay and be or have hypocritical friends. We understood what the real meaning of friendship was, or we would all still be there.
If you read my later posts i am well aware of this:
I'm sorry my existanceand words are offensive to you.I am not offended by you. I respect you. It takes so much courage to leave this organisation. I understand why you are offended .My comments were about a state of mind that everyone goes through not a personality trait hence my statement that it was not intended to offend.
Again this was a piece of advise. take it or leave it. It was in respons to the original question.
To me, this too, read like another insult. Somehow you seem to think we have no idea how to do this. I think we know even more so what true friends are. And how very important it is to find them. We have the BALLS to go out and try to make new friends, even after all the rejection. All the disillusion. All the people who think we are
The person who started this thread DID indeed ASK for suggestions on how to deal with the outside world. YOU may not have problems but lydia asked for suggestions:
Has anyone else found that the teaching of the "outside world" being a "bad Association" limits your involvement and ability to make new freinds?
If so how have you overcome this and any suggestions to helping those suffering from these feelings?
Thanks,
Lydia
I was not insulting anyone. I was replying to the topic at hand. The entire topic was about having difficulties conecting to others in the world after so much hatred has been taught about it for so many years.If you have no problems with friends I am very happy for you but this thread was about exactly that. And i was giving my SUGGESTIONS as to what may help.
Here you contradict what you said earlier. We are "just like everyone else". You say yourself, in this quote, that ones who have never experienced "programming" will not understand. Bgurl, we are VERY aware of our oddities. Even with an understanding of our history, we are still considered odd by some. And yet we have the courage to go out and make friends. Bear our souls. Work through the anger. Help others. And still boo-hoo on the board to ones we KNOW will understand.
No.. i WROTE:'think of them as people just like you' i never said anything about being just like you. Again I was refering to a state of mind. I think that's the main thing here. None of what everyone took offense to is my own opinion. It was all an EXAMPLE of a state of mind. I think I've tryed to explain that in my two later posts after realising the confusion had caused offense.
I really don't understand why people are crying 'offense!' to my reply other than you feel i have no right to post here as I'm not a JW or ex JW. As far as i knew this board was for EVERYONE to post their comments. Where else shall i go? there really isn't a 'people who love ex JWs' board i can post on. I answered a question and it offended people that I, a no JW, had the audacity to reply.
The question was ABOUT becoming friends with the 'wordly'. the topic heading: 'finding friends outside the Borg - a Scary thought' the question of any suggestions on getting past the taught notions of the 'outside' world being evil and making friends in what has been ingrained to be a hostile place. I hoped my unique (to this board) 'worldly' perspective might be of some asistance to the person who started the thread. It was not intended for those who do not have problems. Although people who at first said they understood the emotions of Lydia and felt in the same boat later feel insult from me stating they can make friends and don't need my input. Again it just seems that you don't like a 'worldly' person giving advise which to me shows you still have some negative feelings towards 'worldly' people.
You might as well just stone me next time I attempt to help someone.
But, I felt insulted by your words also. And that was after sleeping on them all night and re-reading them this morning. Sorry, but I think if you continue to read here, you'll see alot more boo-hooing before we're done.
I'm VERY SORRY I seem to have insulted so many but i do wish you'd read my two latter posts of clarrification and regret before responding to my first post. Of course you are going to 'boohoo' (boy do i wish I'd just typed 'feel sad' instead now!) I cry along side my boyfriend when i see the pain and horrific things this oranization did to him and is still doing to his cute little brother who i love with all my heart. That entire 'boohooing' statement was about putting on a face of aprocability if only outwardly, that people enjoy being around people who make them feel good. It's selfish but true. I was merely offering my own insights. I am still somewhat confused as to why I shouldn't have replyed to this topic as that's what i feel was being exuded.
I cry jus about every christmas. Nuthin wrong with it and theres alot of real pain.
Awwwwww...yeah...i made him a fold up christmas tree and wrapped presents for his first christmas and he sent me a cardboard box with Lego toys in it cause he didn't realise he was supposed to wrap it...so cuuuuuteee!
tyydyy

As an always have been 'worldly' person -------i am somewhat offended------- by some comments made here.

Ok let's see. You were offended by our innocent remarks. Next, do we expect you to say something nice and constructive. No. After you have just stated that you were offended we expect that you are about to retaliate. Guess what? We were not disappointed.
I'm not trying to belittle anything anyone has been through --------but----- EVERYONE, in my experience, has had some awful thing or other happen to them throughout their life. Maybe a mindset less 'boohoo, i have been screwed over and noone other than a JW could possibly understand my pain' and more of 'I, like many others in the world, have had a uniquely horrifying experience that i will share with those who show interest and possibly educate someone to the horror that can occur due to being a JW to those who might otherwise remain ignorant' would be a better mindset.
Possibly good advice if it was meant as advice. I don't think anyone read it that way. It really sounds like you were saying quit your crying and do something constructive. You don't have anything unique to cry about.
Then you take the high and mighty road.
I have offered homeless friends my home who were shunned by their families for no other reason than that they couldn't be bothered to look after the child they had created. There was no reason to fall back on such as changing religous views. They were simply a nusance for exhisting.
Friend upon friend upon friend has shared their tales of physical and mental abuse. Ranging from the odd slap and belittling that are scaring enough, to running away with their baby sister after their cocain adicted mother beat them and logded a stileto heel in their forehead.
One friends brother was hitch hiking with his girlfriend and was picked up by a bunch of kids who then raped his girlfriend and beat him to death with a rock.
Everyone has one of these stories based on their own unique backgrounds.
Feel free to share these stories just don't tell ex-jws that they should get over their experience just because someone else had a bad experience.
It is odd to me that i am looked upon as evil by a group of people i do not know, have never met, and who have not tryed to learn who i am. It's a form of predjudice. Don't bring that with you from the religion. It is just another way to control you and keep you from finding people who will love you for who you truely are.
Alot of us are pretty dope. Give us a chance! We're not THAT evil. I only eat babies once a week.
We know better than to take that with us. It is not always a concious choice. THAT is what YOU don't understand. THAT is why maybe you need to sit back and learn from the other posts before opening your mouth about things you don't understand and insulting the very people you come to for support and understanding.
A sincere apology would have been sufficient to soothe the hurt feelings brought on by this "misunderstanding". A sincere apology is NOT followed by the word BUT. It is NOT followed with more insults.
Just try that and take this as friendly advice.
Tim B
Xena

>You arent sincere in your desire to post your real feelings and be open on this board.<
hhhmm well I tried the sincere approach and you ignored that part of my post...gee kinda like you said WE did with your girlfriends..lol must be catching bboy...so you can gage my sincerety now...funny I don't recall ever meeting you
You know what this really isn't worth my time...I think the fact that OTHER PEOPLE besides myself found her words offensive speaks for itself.
So I will end my participation on this note bboy and bgurl...I am sorry if I offended either of you or anyone else in the forum or on this thread. That was not my intent. For my obsenity you are right bboy I should not have used it and it was done in anger. For this also I apologize. And you may both rest assured that you will NEVER again have to endure my crying or posting to either of you.
Thank you and good evening.

finding friends outside the Borg - a Scary thought

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