Since the WT is "famous" for having a "ready answer" to every scripture that proves them WRONG, what is the "official WT teaching" on 1 Cor. 10:17? :
"14 Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak as to men with discernment; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of the Christ? The loaf which we break, is it not a sharing in the body of the Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, WE, ALTHOUGH MANY, are ONE BODY, for we are ALL PARTAKING of that one loaf." - (NWT)
OPERATIVE WORD THERE: "ALL" PARTAKING.
ALL means ALL... NO Mention of "two classes."
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I ask because I want to use 1 Cor. 10:17 on two families of JWs I know, but since I've been "out of the org" so long, I can't remember any "official comeback" that they might have for the above scripture, and I'd like to be prepared.
So, if anyone knows, what is current official WT brainwashing on this verse?
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There was a comment on another Memorial thread that I'm wondering if this info has anything to do how the WT explains-away Paul's words above at 1 Cor. 10:17:
Skeptic1914 wrote: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/132038/1.ashx
[...]
I listen with a critical ear at ANY JW mtg. What struck me was the continued insistence on a literal 144,000, the obvious misapplication of Jesus ref to "other sheep" to an earthly class of Christians and (did anybody else catch this or was it just this speaker) the reference to the apostle Paul being a member of the "1st-century Christian Governing Body" ( in explaining why we were referencing 1st Corinthians instead of the Gospel accounts regarding the procedure to follow). Completely BOGUS since Paul was directly chosen by Christ.
[...]
Have they always said Paul was a member of the GB? If so, I bet that is how they explain away ALL of Paul's words -- which were written to ALL BELIEVERS. If the WT can convince the "other sheep" that Paul was a GB'er, then all his words applied ONLY to OTHER GB'ers.
Infuriating -- because it is such a LIE.
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Just as a side note, from the same "other" Memorial thread:
JH wrote:
[...]
The elder talking in the front told everyone before hand, that NO ONE here at the hall is to take the emblems, drink the wine or eat the bread !!! This was reserved for a specific category of people, then he explained.
[...]
The GAUL of the WT, I tell ya! "COME TO THE LAST SUPPER, but don't EVEN think you get to be PART OF the MEAL!" What a slap in the Lord's face, and a direct contradiction to Paul's words at 1 Cor. 10:17.
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One LAST question, if anybody is reading this far down:
I have heard it said that the way the WT conducts its so-called "Memorial" is actually similar to some "ancient Gnostic ritual" wherein they, too, would sit around and pass the bread/wine and NOT partake on purpose, as a way to show they REJECT the Lord's sacrifice.
Is this true? And if so, does anyone have a specific reference to some Gnostic literature that explains this? You know how it is when trying to show JWs some "new light" -- gotta show them a reference or "proof"
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Thanks for any assistance or ideas.
/ag
MEMORIAL Q: How does WT Explain Away 1 Cor. 10:17?
by abbagail 30 Replies latest jw experiences
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abbagail
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abbagail
Ooops, I should have put this thread in "Beliefs, Doctrines, and Practices." I wasn't paying attention where I was posting it. You can move it there if you like. I don't know how.
/ag -
abbagail
One other observation:
Did the Lord Jesus invite his 1st Century so-called "Governing Body" to his Last Supper, and also invite some "other sheep" to sit and watch?
Answer: NO.
So there's NO SCRIPTURAL PRECEDENCE WHATSOEVER for any such ridiculous "ceremony" as promoted by the WT.
Grrrr.
/ag -
darth frosty
Sure that scripture says that all must partake. What you fail to understand is that paul was writing to first century ANOINTED CHRISTIANS.
At least thats what any well indoctrinated dub will tell you. You see the kicker witlesses use when you hit them with such obvious facts, there core belief is that the bible was written almost exclusively to the anointed. Those of the other sheep are mere eavesdroppers in their dialogue between them and God. Sadly most witlesses dont understand this fact(kinda why we call them witlesses.) -
abbagail
Heehee, thanks darth frosty, I was afraid of that, and so true, the brain-lock is so entrenched, they "automatically" dismiss scriptures as even remotely applying to themselves, except the ONE verse in Rev. that says the great crowd comes through the trib.
"Eavesdroppers" - lol, I like that. It pretty much sums it up for them, eh?
How sad indeed.
/ag -
OnTheWayOut
we are ALL PARTAKING of that one loaf
It's really a waste of time IMO to bother with this line of reasoning.
They simply say that "all" was everyone who accepted the truth at that time,
because there wasn't any Other Sheep established until the 20th Century. -
VanillaMocha73
I remember it being in the United in Worship book that we learned the Greek Scriptures don't apply to the "other sheep." They do it in a sneaky way - (3) Context has a bearing on the meaning of specific verses. - To whom are the statements at Romans 5:1 and 8:16 addressed? (See Romans 1:7.). So there you get stuck, unless someone is really sincere and willing to think. Not to say that it is a waste of time - some honest, sincere questions guided me to freedom. I did not listen initially, but it stuck with me until the right time. The Holy Spirit can work with what you say.
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abbagail
OnTheWayOut:
...because there wasn't any Other Sheep established until the 20th Century.
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Ugh, I know what you mean. I had actually thought of that as I was writing the thread, but hoped maybe I had forgotten something in my years since the WT, that might counter-act that thinking, such as, "Everything the "true church" ever needed was ALREADY WRITTEN BACK THEN, so NO "new light" EVER required, including the "discovery" of the "other sheep" in the 20th century."
Maybe I should start from that aspect:
HELLO - BIG HINT (to my JW "friends"):
Little Flock = JEWS.
Other Sheep = GENTILES.
Hello my fellow JWs-still-in-bondage: BOTH groups were ALREADY designated BACK THEN. And they ALL PARTOOK.
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Oh well, one can dream. The brick wall [in their minds] is massive, isn't it? Very frustrating.
/ag -
abbagail
VanillaMocha73:
...The Holy Spirit can work with what you say.
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Amen, Vanilla, and thank you! I was counting on the Holy Spirit! ;-) If I just do wee-little-nuggets at a time. You know how the JW-mind will "shut down immediately" with "T.M.I."
And I didn't realize the WT says NO GREEK SCRIPTURES apply to the "other sheep." Hmmm, seems the WT has the Bible in reverse. Do they say all the Hebrew scriptures apply to the "great crowd of other sheep" but the Greek scriptures to the "little flock" ONLY? I can see where they would say that since the OT scriptures describe the earthly vs. the heavenly aspects of the Kingdom.
Truly, the WT has it ALL BACKWARDS! Sounds like a sinister ulterior motive to me hiding in there somewhere.
Anyhoo, glad you were "awakened" in time. That's great news and inspires hope!
Blessings,
/ag -
SirNose586
Sure that scripture says that all must partake. What you fail to understand is that paul was writing to first century ANOINTED CHRISTIANS.
At least thats what any well indoctrinated dub will tell you. You see the kicker witlesses use when you hit them with such obvious facts, there core belief is that the bible was written almost exclusively to the anointed. Those of the other sheep are mere eavesdroppers in their dialogue between them and God. Sadly most witlesses dont understand this fact(kinda why we call them witlesses.)It's circular logic.
Q: Why don't these words apply to all Christians?
A: Because the NT was written primarily for the anointed.
Q: How do you know it was written primarily for the anointed?
A: Because this understanding was made clear to the anointed ones.
Q: But how do they know that they are anointed? How did they get this understanding?
A: Because they have special connection to the words of the Bible. They are like a personal letter written to them, and therefore as the FDS class, they receive special insight on the meaning of scriptures.
Q: But even though I feel a special connection to these words, and I feel that as a Christian they should apply to me, why do you change the application of these scriptures to not apply to me?
A: Because the words of the NT were written primarily for the anointed.
Good news though, this May 1 QFR throws a wrench into all of that.