WHO IS THE INJURED PARTY? What is wrong with this doctrine?

by Terry 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  trevor

  I am 1000 percent certain that there is A GOD. Is He the God of the bible?

  There is no such thing as 1000 percent but once our imaginations run wild with no recourse to reality - I guess it's possible to believe anything!
• 

  LongHairGal

  Good post!

  I have always had a problem with this doctrine or concept that we are "sinners" and have to pay for something we never did. It would seem the damage to god/Jehovah was to his ego alone because he cannot be damaged or hurt by anything. So, this ongoing punishment to the poor human race was infinitely disproportionate to this act in the "garden of Eden". This is probably the worst tragedy in the universe that we know of.

  It is not as though I/we "had" perfection and lost it. We never had it in the first place. Why, then, must the human race constantly pay for this? When a JW, I was always tired of being reminded how sinful we were. And, we were always told we could never pay back this "debt". I am convinced that this guilt trip is nothing more than a control mechanism on the part of religious leaders in order to enslave millions of people into servitude to people with a power trip looking to exploit endlessly.

  Now I ask anybody: does this make god out to be something to be "loved"??? I hardly think so. The tragedy is that all he can inspire is fear.

  LHG
• 

  Terry

  Accountability is certainly necessary. However, the punishment should fit the crime, don't you think? If you told your kid, don't eat the bananas, I'm saving them to make banana cream pie, and he goes and eats one banana because he's hungry and because you've just made it more tantalizing to have a banana by telling him he can't have one, and because you didn't give him an apple instead, is it really justice to kill or torture your kid for the rest of his life over it? If it sounds messed up when you put it in that perspective, that's because it IS messed up.

  Worse than that!

  All your kid's children and grand-children and great grand-children, great-great grand-children must suffer as well for the banana theft incident!!

  The magnitude of the punishment is HIGHLY INDICATIVE of the mental state of the one enforcing such a sense of personal insult. The ego of God here is ENORMOUS and neurotic in the extreme.
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  Terry

  Terry says:..."Two naked people in a garden eating forbidden fruit. A devil and a talking snake. Then we add a villainous god. Who really invented this rubbish?

  Terry said this?
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  Terry

  I have always had a problem with this doctrine or concept that we are "sinners" and have to pay for something we never did.

  Surely we define prejudice and racism in the very same manner when we apply negative characterization to somebody just because they share a general trait and not a specific behavior! If Genesis were true, Jehovah punishes based--NOT ON SPECIFIC BEHAVIOR--but, based on a genetic anomaly entirely outside the choosing of the one being judged.

  Justice is no longer justice (as Richard Pryor might say: it is JUST US.)
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  Terry

  Well, I'll tell you who came up with this "rubbish".

  Your very long post and apologia are straight out of Lee Strobel and John McDowell. (I work in a bookstore in the religion, philosophy and metaphysics section, remember?)

  These writers exist for the very purpose of explaining away the illogic, injustice and mindless narratives which exist in the bible and in the general theology of the Christian religion.

  A tidal wave of generalities do not wash away the very specific charges I've levelled in my topic.

  This is like excusing Hitler by a long litany of "He loved his dog, he was a sensitive art student, he was a war hero, he was blinded by mustard gas, he paid his price to society by being imprisoned, he gave the despondent German people their confidence back, he improved the economy of Germany, etc.)

  It just does NOT counter-balance the true HARM done.

  Think again. This time--use your own intellect to parse this very real problem of injustice as portrayed in Genesis.
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  JH

  Now, I can see why the Watchtower doesn't want the JW's to read XJW sites...

  You're pretty convincing Terry.
• 

  Terry

  Now, I can see why the Watchtower doesn't want the JW's to read XJW sites...

  You're pretty convincing Terry.

  Something I've learned along the way.....

  Almost anything can be persuasively "true" or "false" if one sticks to generalities. However, the real rebuttal occurs with the specifics.

  By defining terms and staying focused laser-like on actual step-by-step specifics a bad argument falls apart and a good one becomes obvious.

  The Watchtower deals in run on sentences and cherry-picked scriptural support, translation shopping and an arsenal of logical fallacy. None of it stands up to scrutiny when you start carefully defining, defining, defining the molecules which make up their virus of contagion.

  Religion generally is seen as a good thing because we can cherry pick the good that is done in its name. However, without a fair counter-balance to portray the overall TOTALITY there is no definition which presents a whole-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth definition.

  The theology of Christianity is based on the argument of salvation by Jesus. The explanation of how this salvation works and WHY IT IS NECESSARY is deeply flawed.
• 

  startingover

  The Watchtower deals in run on sentences and cherry-picked scriptural support, translation shopping and an arsenal of logical fallacy.

  Thanks for the thread and the above statement Terry.

  And thanks to Scully, Kid-A, Trevor and some others for their comments.

  And also a big thanks to Unbaptized and Vinny for making it interesting. It was posts like yours and the rebuttals that helped me to realize that all the stuff I was taught from infancy was nothing but a feeble attempt to explain why we die.
• 

  unbaptized

  Scully,

  You are correct in saying that hiv is not a genetic defect and some children are born without hiv symptoms.

  So that would mean that sin does not affect human genes. Tell me do you know of anyone living today that will not die because of sin?

  If it does not affect our gene's then some of us should be able to live for thousands of years!