First & Last, One-time post (page 5)

journey-on

James...I understand the process of dissolving the ego and realizing that Self goes beyond the duality of our conscious existence. My quest in this direction is what has sustained me. It correlates with the admonition to be "in the world but not part of it." But being imperfect, I slip occasionally back into my "old way" of thinking and observing. You're an alright guy. Thanks for your insight. We're really not that far apart in some of our thinking.

RAF

I'm happy, happy, happy ... Journey-on (didn't want to get into J. Thomas - has a very specific way to speak - quiet deep - and stuff and just say well it's interesting to get into his reasoning - as believer or not - since I was not sure of your state of mind about the whole matter yet) it feels better now ...
Read you soon ...

JamesThomas

I slip occasionally back into my "old way" of thinking and observing.

Yes, we all do; and it is the heat of emotional pain and suffering which is a warning alarm that we are back in the old way of interpreting the world.

I'm glad you understand and have the vision to see that there needs to be a radical shift of awareness out of the judgmental good and bad, me verses them thought patterns if there is going to be real healing.

Losing our loved ones to the JWs is very tragic. Yet, it is such tragedy that can motivate us to look deeper and find that which is whole and unbroken.

I wish you the very best on your journey.

RAF, you're a dear. I'm think'n about taken the next bus to France.

j

willyloman

Great letter and a brilliant sumation of the very nature of dubs and the inner struggle they go through.

I couldn't agree more. That 'inner struggle" goes on all the time withthe majority (or at least a very large minority) of JWs, based on my experience. I don't know if you sent this letter, or plan to, but I would. It might plant a seed, who knows?

Dismembered

Greetings J-O

Mail the letter.

Dismembered

Numinous

Ever notice how nobody ever gets DFed for gluttony, materialism, or, for that matter, heavy drinking? I have known people who got a job even though their husband made six figures just so they could avoid service, but they were fine because of their social status. Or who pioneered for a hall pass on their materialism. Way down, nobody WANTS to go by the rules of this religion. It is an insurance policy just in case they need it, and the meaner you are in the name of righteousness the better. BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE SAME SPIRIT!!! I understand what JamesThomas is saying. Human beings respond to love. If the relatives know that your door is open and you drop bitterness (be mad at the org. not them) the day may come that they will approach you. We are all responsible for our own feelings, but I do feel for you in your situation and your perception of the situation is interesting and probably accurate. It is just so important not to have the same attitude that got them where they are now...I can see how religion in general has sprouted from the idea that we are all separate.

AK - Jeff

I thought of commenting here - but I just don't have anything bad to say about James Thomas - that seems to be the sub-plot of this thread.

Jeff

LovesDubs

Very thought provoking post. We are allllllll so frustrated with the black and white way the dubs look at the world and the Its My Way Or the Highway way they approach all things. And it IS easier to shun us than to face their doubts and be shunned themselves. My JW husband was an alcoholic MEAN alcoholic and he was drunk and in bars and not going to meetings nor in service and beat the crap outta me a year ago and looked me right in the face and said that I was going to be destroyed at armageddon for "leaving Jehovah" and that he "was at least TRYING to do what Jehovah required of him and therefore would be in paradise...." and oh yeah...that he was going to shun his mother now because she left the JWs too and became a born again christian. Now...compare his behavior to mine or his mothers and who would a loving God "reward" if he was in the business of rewarding vs destroying people for their conduct??? And there is nothing on the planet that can make him see otherwise. It makes us all scream in the night my friend. We totalllllly understand how you feel.

Didnt Jesus himself say to the rich man....give all your posessions to the poor and follow me...and THE GUY COULDNT DO IT.

Indeed...its easier to talk the talk than it is to walk the walk. And they would point right back at us and say YOU left because it was TOO HARD FOR YOU TO DO TOO!!! or YOU left because YOU COULDNT CUT IT!!

Yep..rote answers...rote attitudes...ruined lives.

Please post again honey...we want your insight.

Loves

Paralipomenon

Very good letter, I think you hit the nail on the head as to her motivation.

I think very few witnesses actually enjoy shunning. They shun because it's an easy thing to do to reaffirm their faith.

So my question would be, why let it be easy on her? Why give her an easy affirmation by shunning you? Why not call as often as you want? Invite her over for supper? Show up to help out? Make shunning you more of an effort than not and she might take the path of less resistance.

If they like being a JW, that is their own prerogative. You may have to accept that, but you don't have to accept their shunning.

You can actively show your love by not giving up on her.

bernadette

Hi journey-on

i really like paralipmenon's point

So my question would be, why let it be easy on her? Why give her an easy affirmation by shunning you? Why not call as often as you want? Invite her over for supper? Show up to help out? Make shunning you more of an effort than not and she might take the path of less resistance.

If they like being a JW, that is their own prerogative. You may have to accept that, but you don't have to accept their shunning.

You can actively show your love by not giving up on her.

Together with your philosopy regarding the Self it may prove to be an irrisitable combination. I'm certainly going to give it a try - the text for today is from luke11:13 for instance. JW's do have some truth one can use to get people thinking in a more enabling way

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