Is Faith Dangerous? A Question for Believers...

by AllTimeJeff 85 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  AllTimeJeff

  I don't really understand the self-perpetuating cycle of pulling out quotes from this sceptic or that believer to vilifiy or justify faith.

  I agree to a point Password that there is ample ammo for both sides of this debate. However, I think many of these debates are often about each "debater" working it out for themselves. My own points of view have evolved since I did this thread.

  I would agree with you that most personal faith is not dangerous. Clearly, where one's faith gives them permission to enforce beliefs or otherwise harm another person, then their personal faith is no longer personal, and we do see this happen on rare occasions.

  I value faith more then at any time since I left JW's.... I don't view it negatively or begrudge it as I once did.

  It shoud always be down to an individual's personal experience. I am a person of faith, but I didn't reach that place due to reading what so-called experts have to say on the matter.

  I agree.

  Chalam said

  Interesting thread. I think it is good to explore the possibilities to some extent. It is clear you will not be happy with atheism but neither have you found God, hence the "no man's land" of agnosticism, neither faith nor total unbelief.

  My only qualm with you here is your judgment of agnosticism. If you view it as no mans land, I accept that, but I personally view it as a very comfortable, and especially a very honest place to be.

  I do think for some like myself, the journey requires agnosticism. I recall that you yourself struck out from agonsticism? (correct me if I am wrong) The point being, for everyone, it is better to say for a time "I don't know" then to pretend you do, borrow someone else's faith as your own, etc.

  We all need to come to our own conclusions on the matter. In that, I continue to have a beef with group think religions that carry along doubters with their theology instead of helping or encouraging them to think on their own.
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  PSacramento

  I think that Faith, like anything else, can be very dangerous, typically when it is NOT "tempered" by Love.

  Paul said it best: Love, Hope and Faith, of the three, the greatest is Love.

  if you temper faith ( or anything for that matter) with Love we eliminate extremissim and that is truly the cause of the problem.
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  Chalam

  My only qualm with you here is your judgment of agnosticism. If you view it as no mans land, I accept that, but I personally view it as a very comfortable, and especially a very honest place to be.

  That's cool. Just don't stay all day :) If there is a Creator then surely He will hear your cry. If not, eat drink and chill Luke 12:19

  I do think for some like myself, the journey requires agnosticism. I recall that you yourself struck out from agonsticism? (correct me if I am wrong) The point being, for everyone, it is better to say for a time "I don't know"

  Deep down I always knew God. I just didn't think knowing Him was much fun and everything ungodly was. I did get to the point where I didn't know which way was up, for sure. But He is all these things :) Psalm 86:15 Psalm 103:8 Psalm 145:8 In fact, each of those Psalms describes what happened.

  So as my (then) unsaved wife said to me once "what are you doing about your faith?"! Even then she was a prophet...

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  Spook

  I consider faith to be irrational optimisim. This has no innate problem. It could produce good results as can irrational pessimism.

  Either way, I think it's a very natural human tendancy. But, in general, I think it's a behavior of last resort - one that should be turned to in life only in decreasing increments where the light of reason can not shine.
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  passwordprotected

  Francis Collins has some interesting observations on agnosticism perhaps being the ultimate cop out*. He was agnostic, then atheist, then believer. Interesting journey.

  Oh, and he's a scientist.

  He's quoted in this excellent book too. Written by another scientist**.

  I think it's often a simple case of life's baggage determine how we view the idea of faith and God. And as an exJW, I fully recognise that the Governing Body have ladened us with more than our personal allowance.

  *Quote: "In response, Collins clarified his position on agnosticism so as not to include "earnest agnostics who have considered the evidence and still don't find an answer. I was reacting to the agnosticism I see in the scientific community, which has not been arrived at by a careful examination of the evidence."

  **Not sure if those of a scientific background on this forum would consider him a real scientist as I'm not clear on the predicating conditions with which one science is considered more or less legitimate than another.
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  AllTimeJeff

  I am bumping this thread up, but for my own posterity's sake, as frankly, to lose ones faith is to have your heart tore out.

  Wow have I changed. I am very thankful for this, and other debates. It helped me to start thinking. I hadn't been out of JWs for but a few months when I ventured out on this tricky little subject.

  Suffice to say, I no longer think that faith is dangerous. My thinking has evolved.

  I do think that faith without questions and doubt, blindly following ideology, is dangerous and should be rejected out of hand. (I'm talking to YOU, organized religion)

  But lately, I am coming to the conclusion that religious people are powerful, and that it is their faith, not "god", that gives them their power. And that non-religious people demonstrate faith in many things.

  Faith is more powerful than god, I think.

  More later. And many thanks to those in my early post JW days, esp to Little Toe, whose arguments I respect more than I did at the time.