by skeeter1 61 Replies latest watchtower medical
Gary,
If the Watchtower Society says Jehovah's Witnesses can receive blood fractions, then are we to believe that none of them take it? Do we have statistics of how many or even if any get organ transplants? You might not be able to prove if any or how many take blood fractions or organ transplants, but you can certainly prove that the Watchtower Society says they are a conscience matter. Isn't that enough?
A small amount of albumin (Usually either human or bovine) is used either as an excipient and/or an adjuvant in several common childhood immunizations including MMR and the new enhanced potency poliomyelitis IPV. In virtually all developed countries, children must have this battery of immunizations to attend public school.
That alone ends the discussion over whether JW's accept fractions or not. Of course there are JWs who claim they refuse blood in any form, but they are simply ignorant. Blood is everywhere in modern medicine.
Call the hemoglobin drug manufacturers, and ask them how many of the recipients of the compassionate use program are Jehovah's Witnesses. The ladies I spoke with were very well aware that Jehovah's Witnesses take hemoglobin through the "compassionate use" program, and that their companies supply the hemoglobin to JWs through the "compassionate use" program.
The fact that these manufacturers set up a "compassionate use" program, also helps prove that JWs are taking hemoglobin. Everyone else (i.e. worldly people) would just take frozen, washed, red blood cells. How many worldly people would reject readily available red blood cells (such as frozen, washed red blood cells), and demand hemoglobin? Especially, how many worldly people would wait a few days to get hemoglobin, as the doctors and the drug manufacturer: 1) get doctor on-board to use experimental hemoglobin, 2) get hospital ethics board to use experimental hemoglobin, 3) get insurance company on board to use experimental hemoglobin, 4) contact the hemoglobin manufacturer to review individual patient's case, 5) drug manufacturer to get contact FDA approval & file paperwork for use on this one patient, and then 6) send hemoglobin to hospital? By & large, worldly people are not going to go through this. But, the HLC & individual JWs are.
Skeeter
Kenneson, you wrote: "Isn't that enough?"
My point exactly!
If I say Jehovah's Witnesses can take blood fractions, that's one thing.
If I say Jehovah's Witnesses DO take blood fractions, that's different.
I am personally aware of some Witnesses who did receive organ transplants. I can say that much.
I'm not aware of any Witnesses willingly taking blood fraction treatment. I can say they may, and they can, but I can't say they "do".
My reply was to the top post where Skeeter gave advise on what to say to the media in an interview and I take issue with these two sentences. "They do not "abstain from blood" . . . , and ". . . they take blood fractions, made from thousands of units of donated blood."
It would be misleading for me to tell a reporter that Jehovah's Witnesses aggregate does not "abstain from blood". I can't prove that. It would also be misleading if not downright dishonest for me to tell a reporter Jehovah's Witnesses "take blood fractions". I have no firsthand or even second hand information (hearsay) that Witnesses are taking blood fraction treatment. I am understanding that Skeeter doesn't have that proof either.
I DO have first hand information that some Witnesses are currently refusing blood treatment as they have for 60+ years. The current case is a part of my documentation.
I believe I have enough hard facts with printed literature and first hand personal experience to make a good rational case against the Witness blood mistreatment policy. I don't think it helps my case to make misleading statements to the media or to state guesses as fact.
I do as much supposing and speculating as anybody relating to the Witnesses and their strategy, but not to the media and not in this case certainly. If the Skeeter poster has the facts to back up the claims then I hope that poster reveals those facts for us all to see. If the supporting facts do not exist, then I think the top post contained bad advise and I hope it's ignored.
I am understanding that Skeeter doesn't have that proof either.
Gary,
I have the proof. I spoke with manufacturers of hemoglobin. I gave you the names & numbers of the spokeswomen for these companies. Call them yourself & get first hand knowledge of thier "compassionate use" program. Ask them who the patients are, and if a good number of the compassionate use programs included JWs who are working with thier HLC elder to obtain the product.
I also ask you if JWs accept tetanus shots (which I showed were a blood fraction by the Watchtower's own words)? I know they do, as my father & sister both had tetanus shots, and many babies/children routinely get this shot as part of the normal vaccinations.
Skeeter.
They say can't take whole blood but little fraction parts, okay!?
Kinda like can't steal the whole thing, but in little parts, it's okay?!
ABSURD!! The whole WT doctrine(s)!! (In whole and in part!)
Skeeter, you wrote: "I have the proof."
Then put it together in a document with names, and dates, and references and publish it for us to see. You made the claims, it's up to you to document the proof. I'm not going to run around trying to support your claim for you.
First of all I can't see how talking to a supplier of medical supplies is proof that members of the Jehovah's Witness group are being treated with the items. If I talk to your milk man, is that proof you drink the chocolate milk? The most I could prove is that a delivery was made.
I'll be interested to see how many Witness names you can come up with to prove the Witnesses are taking blood fractions. I bet you can't find 10 real cases to report on out of over six million Witnesses.
I challenge your claim of having proof. Bring it on.
They say can't take whole blood but little fraction parts, okay!?
Little fractions parts...boy, that Society line just cracks me up.
Watchtower 6/15/1985 page 30
Each batch of Factor VIII is made from plasma that is pooled from as many as 2 500 blood donors.
Picture of Hemoglobin
Watchtower policy permits the transfusion of cow's blood?
True or False - see answer
Watchtower Society approves Hemopure for Jehovah's Witnesses
Amen, Brother Skeeter. I've been trying to get the media to do a story on the fractions issue, to no avail.
My mantra:
Gary,
Below is from www.ajwrb.org . Back in 2000, the Watchtower Society was not openly telling its followers that they could have hemoglobin. It wasn't the past June article in the Awake did they specifically mention "h-e-m-o-g-l-o-b-i-n" to their followers. Up until then, it was "any fraction of the red blood cell." The 2006 change came (in my opinion) as a result of "Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood Transfusions, and the Tort of Misrepresentation" where the author slammed the Watcthower Society for not telling followers that "h-e-m-o-g-l-o-b-i-n" was allowed in her article, in her Associated Press newspaper article, and in her BBC interview.
Interestingly, in 2000, a newspaper wrote that a JW recieved Hemopure. Yes, this is just one person. But, this was back in 2000 (when "hemoglobin" was not officially allowed). But, read the article more & it talks about the "compassionate use" program. The compassionate use program was set up to help more than just one Witness brother, Mr. Brown.
Skeeter
Watchtower Approves HemoPure for Jehovah's Witnesses
Jehovah's Witnesses have long been known for their rejection of blood and blood-component transfusion, even when it is necessary to save life. In a remarkable change in policy, the Witnesses’ governing body announced in the June 15, 2000 issue of its official church publication The Watchtower, that members may now accept "fractions of any of the primary components" of blood. (Italics added) Previously, Witnesses who accepted a transfusion of blood fractions other than those found in plasma faced possible expulsion and enforced shunning by church members.
This change in policy was particularly timely for one man. According to a September 24, 2000 article in the Sacramento Bee, a patient was recently transfused with Hemopure®, a highly purified oxygen-carrying hemoglobin solution made from fractionated bovine (cow) blood and manufactured by Biopure Corporation.
Dorsey Griffith, a medical writer for the Bee, states that Gregory Brown, a representative from the Jehovah's Witnesses Hospital Liaison Committee, approved the use of the oxygen-carrying solution that was transfused into the patient, Jose Orduño. The article notes: “When Orduño woke up from his drug-induced slumber, about a month after the ordeal began, Angelica was there …His sister told him about the accident and how he almost died, and about the drug made from cow blood that had saved his life.”
That approval of the use of hemoglobin marks a notable change in the Watchtower Society’s policy is readily seen from its own published statements:
“Is it wrong to sustain life by administering a transfusion of blood or plasma or red cells or others of the component parts of the blood? Yes!...The prohibition includes "any blood at all." (Leviticus 3:17) - Blood, Medicine and the Law of God, 1961, pp. 13, 14“…various tonics and tablets sold by druggists show on their labels that they contain blood fractions such as hemoglobin. So it is necessary for one to be alert… if they are to keep themselves ‘without spot from the world.’—Jas. 1:27.” The Watchtower, 9/15/61, p. 557.
“Early in man’s history, our Creator ruled that humans should not eat blood. (Genesis 9:3, 4) He stated that blood represents life, which is a gift from him. Blood removed from a creature could be used only in sacrifice, such as on the altar. Otherwise, blood from a creature was to be poured on the ground, in a sense giving it back to God ...It would be right, of course, to avoid products that listed things such as blood, blood plasma, plasma, globin (or globulin) protein, or hemoglobin (or globin) iron.” The Watchtower, 10/15/92 - Questions From Readers. (Italics added)
As recently as 1998 two officials from the Watchtower Society’s “Hospital Information Services” wrote that Jehovah's Witnesses “do not accept hemoglobin which is a major part of red blood cells.... Jehovah’s Witnesses do not accept a blood substitute which uses hemoglobin taken from a human or animal source." Bailey R, Ariga T. The view of Jehovah's Witnesses on blood substitutes. Artif Cells Blood Substit Immobil Biotechnol 1998;26:571-576.
The policy on hemoglobin and other blood fractions was changed in the June 15, 2000 issue of The Watchtower. This latest change may in fact cause further confusion for many Witnesses since products like Hemopure® are derived from large quantities of stored animal blood. Numerous witnesses have questioned the logic of such an internally inconsistent dogma. Some believe that the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is simply changing its long-standing doctrine gradually to avoid legal problems anticipated with an overt change to a policy that has resulted in so many deaths over the years.
Hemopure® is currently being evaluated for human use in a pivotal, multinational Phase III clinical trial. Biopure expects to complete this trial and file Biologic License Applications (BLA’s) in the United States, European Union and Canada in 2001 for perioperative use in elective surgeries. The company has already applied for marketing approval of Hemopure® in South Africa with a proposed product indication to eliminate or reduce red blood cell transfusions in elective surgeries. Biopure is also investigating the product's use in trauma, to oxygenate hypoxic tumors, and in conditions where tissue oxygenation may be beneficial but blood is not normally transfused.
The “compassionate use” program makes Hemopure® available where a life-threatening situation exists and compatible red blood cell transfusion is 1) not available, 2) not effective, or 3) not acceptable to the patient. Requests for “compassionate use” availability of Hemopure® may come from the family or doctor of the patient; thereafter the patient, the patient’s medical institution, and Biopure must approve the request, which is then forwarded along with details of the case for final approval by the FDA. Approval is made on a case-by-case basis, and in those cases where it has been approved, it has been made available within a few days. Requests for information regarding “compassionate use” approval of Hemopure® should be directed to Jan Anderson, R.N., of Biopure. Her telephone number is 617-234-6827. For further information see the Biopure website at: http://www.biopure.com.
A.J.W.R.B. welcomes the recent developments but will continue to work for further revisions in the Watchtower Society’s blood policy. We believe that Jehovah’s Witnesses should have a free choice in their medical treatment without controls or sanctions from the Watchtower Society that could separate them from their religious community or Jehovah’s Witness family members and friends.
